UPS First Year Pay

[Ivan]

Right seat

FedEx is now hiring guys directly to the right seat of the 727. Last class had around 12 727 FOs, 12 S/Os, and 6-9 DC-10 S/Os. In our last seat bid we had new hires still in S/O training pick up training dates for the right seat of the Boeing. One of my buds was hired in Nov and he held MD-11 F/O at ANC. Not too shabby.

 

[psysicx]

Is ANC more junior then MEM?

 

[Ivan]

Yeah, ANC goes more JR than MEM. I think LAX does, too. Surprisingly (to me anyway), the Airbus goes much more senior than the MD-11 at FDX. I guess alot of dudes don't like the int'l stuff.

 

[tailhookah]

Stop your complaining..... most people would give their left nut to work for brown....especially the furloughed guys. Pay after first year goes way up w/ a great company. Take the job and suck it up for a year and stop f...ing complaining. It sure beats being furloughed........... or flying RJ's for chump change....

 

[BIGBROWNDC8]

Well, thats what UPS is counting on... Sad...

 

[Big Beer Belly]

Stop your complaining..... most people would give their left nut to work for brown....especially the furloughed guys. Pay after first year goes way up w/ a great company. Take the job and suck it up for a year and stop f...ing complaining. It sure beats being furloughed........... or flying RJ's for chump change....

BIGBROWNDC8
Well, thats what UPS is counting on... Sad...

I agree BBDC8 ... with UPS posting nearly $4 BILLION in annual profits (due in no small part to the hard work of its pilots), they can surely afford to pay their new hires a living wage. I have no desire to see the cargo wages race to the bottom of the toilet like the passenger industry because pilots like tailhookah are fighting to sell their labor cheaper than the next guy "just to have a job".

DESPERATION for jobs leads wages and working conditions into the sewer. Isn't that exactly what's going on in the passenger industry today? A guy flipping burgers at McDonald's or sorting nails at Home Depot makes more than many regional pilots. Your average mid-level salesman at a Fortune 500 company earns more than most major airline captains. ALL of the legacy pensions are gone ... some simply don't realize it.

This industry is in the toilet and the big flush is inevitable!

BBB

 

[jhill]

Stop your complaining..... most people would give their left nut to work for brown....especially the furloughed guys. Pay after first year goes way up w/ a great company. Take the job and suck it up for a year and stop f...ing complaining. It sure beats being furloughed........... or flying RJ's for chump change....

Oh Really? While it definitely beats being on the street you should look into this a little further. UPS has a poorly hidden B scale for the first 7 years. They have one pay rate supposedly based on the 767. FE and FO pay is based on a percentage of Captains pay. Look at the first 7 years of Captain pay and you will see they are very low rates. Now compare Fedex FO rates on the A300 then tell me how great second ,third, fourth, fifth, sixth, ect. UPS rates are.

We will see what happens with this in their next agreement but I wouldn't count on much of a fix if any.

 

[Ivan]

Hold on, now. Everyone knows starting wages are low, and everyone knows the regional dudes fly for peanuts. They always have, and will for the foreseeable future. The idea is to get to the majors.

Yeah, Delta and United guys are flying at huge paycuts ("bankruptcy wages" if you will), but the senior capts are still getting paid over $200/hr. While I'd like to see FDX and UPS dudes get a pay hike (and FDX will), I don't think it's smart to go for a huge payout and shoot for $300/hr. Yeah, they're making money now, but so was Delta 6 years ago. Yes, we need a Union, but our union needs to realize guys like Fred are in it to make money, not funnel all the profits to employees.

Don't be so quick to judge Tailhookah, or anyone else that "just wants a job." You don't know what his personal situation is or what he's willing to work for.

 

[Big Beer Belly]

Yeah, they're making money now, but so was Delta 6 years ago. Yes, we need a Union, but our union needs to realize guys like Fred are in it to make money, not funnel all the profits to employees.

Interesting how you compare FedEx's business model with Delta's. Since I don't work for FedEx ... I had no idea FedEx is as vulnerable and unstable as Delta. UPS has been rock solid in its profitability year after year after year ... actually for nearly 98 of them now.

Your view that your union is unaware that FedEx is a for-profit company attempting to maximize its return to SHAREHOLDERS is equally troubling. I think you ought to give them a call and make them aware of this revelation. <g>

As for getting to know tailhookah ... hope he's one of your new hires and I hope we do push for the $300/hr! <ng>

Good luck on your contract talks ... but with FedEx so precarious in its finances (like DAL) and your union so confused about why Fred Smith started his company, well ... best of luck! <g>

BBB

 

[Ivan]

Thanks for the sarcasm. Did you get the beer belly drinking by yourself?

 

[DoubleB]

If someone had job offers at both FEDEX and UPS ..............where would you fellas go??

 

[klhoard]

. . .<snip>. . .

Your view that your union is unaware that FedEx is a for-profit company attempting to maximize its return to SHAREHOLDERS is equally troubling. I think you ought to give them a call and make them aware of this revelation. <g>. . .<snip>. . .

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Ooohhhhhhhhhhhh, so it's a PROFIT scheme. . . . . .
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(Steve Martin - "The Jerk")
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[tailhookah]

bring it on............

I have a major airline job and am furloughed from a major.... i don't pity regional guys because I believe it's part of the dues you have to pay to work your way up....if you are not sharp enough to make it to the majors then flip burgers for all i care...this is capitalistic society. It's not and never will be fair. So back to what I said earlier..... the freight guys are getting paid well. Maybe not as well as you, I or all of us would like but did anyone learn anything the last few years???? Jesup H Christ...... go and get your big raise you so deserve. Then when the company starts to go into the $hitter because DHL is kicking your ass with lower CABM (cost per available box mile) and your company furloughs and slashes your pay and contract while in Ch11 I'll be laughing my ass off calling you a dumbass... big raises don't help any company no matter how much they are making. I'm not telling your "great union" how to do it, just take a page outta the ALPA (airline pilot's ass reaming guide) and go buy a huge house on interest payments only..... while i was furloughed before i was able to return to aviation I slugged it out in the private sector, where I was making good coin and it sucked. Also you know what???? I earned every friggin penny of the 80+hours a week i was working. Even though i was home every night i spent less quality time with my kids then I do now commuting 18 days a month to reserve. I've learned that airline pilot's are jacks-of-all-trades and masters of none...... so don't talk about how some guy slugging it out in the trenches doesn't earn his keep..... being a pilot is a great lifestyle for most of us who have the 'sickness' and enjoy flying for a living. It's a great job that we can leave behind when we are at home and get great satisfaction from..... we are not kissing someone's ass to sell him a bunch of widgets..... that sucks. I know from personal experience.... so maybe if ALPA and other unions weren't so friggin greedy and focused on getting UAL+1% and were doing their jobs keeping management's spending and their decisions in check then I would still be at my first major airline making much better money than I am now. It's the greed that fuks us.....smaller strategic raises I think are much better. The airline unions in my opinion are broken and when this round of furloughees all get back on property I think a lot of the "younger" guys are going to flip ALPA the bird and opt out the union.......

bring it on.........
tail

 

[Big Beer Belly]

I have a major airline job and am furloughed from a major.... i don't pity regional guys because I believe it's part of the dues you have to pay to work your way up....if you are not sharp enough to make it to the majors then flip burgers for all i care...this is capitalistic society. It's not and never will be fair. So back to what I said earlier..... the freight guys are getting paid well. Maybe not as well as you, I or all of us would like but did anyone learn anything the last few years???? Jesup H Christ...... go and get your big raise you so deserve. Then when the company starts to go into the $hitter because DHL is kicking your ass with lower CABM (cost per available box mile) and your company furloughs and slashes your pay and contract while in Ch11 I'll be laughing my ass off calling you a dumbass... big raises don't help any company no matter how much they are making. I'm not telling your "great union" how to do it, just take a page outta the ALPA (airline pilot's ass reaming guide) and go buy a huge house on interest payments only..... while i was furloughed before i was able to return to aviation I slugged it out in the private sector, where I was making good coin and it sucked. Also you know what???? I earned every friggin penny of the 80+hours a week i was working. Even though i was home every night i spent less quality time with my kids then I do now commuting 18 days a month to reserve. I've learned that airline pilot's are jacks-of-all-trades and masters of none...... so don't talk about how some guy slugging it out in the trenches doesn't earn his keep..... being a pilot is a great lifestyle for most of us who have the 'sickness' and enjoy flying for a living. It's a great job that we can leave behind when we are at home and get great satisfaction from..... we are not kissing someone's ass to sell him a bunch of widgets..... that sucks. I know from personal experience.... so maybe if ALPA and other unions weren't so friggin greedy and focused on getting UAL+1% and were doing their jobs keeping management's spending and their decisions in check then I would still be at my first major airline making much better money than I am now. It's the greed that fuks us.....smaller strategic raises I think are much better. The airline unions in my opinion are broken and when this round of furloughees all get back on property I think a lot of the "younger" guys are going to flip ALPA the bird and opt out the union.......

bring it on.........
tail

Your post stinketh like management flame bait! Funny how you guys come out whenever we're in contract talks (now in our 3rd year!).

 

[Big Beer Belly]

Thanks for the sarcasm. Did you get the beer belly drinking by yourself?

Oh Ivan ... if you're gunna roll over after a little ribbing ...I'm going to take my toys and play with someone else ... so there. <g>