UPS First Year Pay

[Clyde]

Test.

 

[Big Beer Belly]

Thank you Mr. 5 percenter.

Maybe if I had been here and got my own letter and watched the clock tick down to midnight, I'd be angry and bitter to, but I'm not.

I just want a decent contract that's fair to both sides and we SHALL get retropay.

In your last post you implied that you didn't need to be around for any length of time to form an accurate opinion ... you were new, but you knew it all anyway ... or some such silliness. Now you acknowledge that perhaps your opinion would be different if you had been hired at FedEx earlier. Which is it?

As for the 5% unhappy crowd at FedEx ... if 95% are currently happy, what incentive does Fred have to improve any aspect of your current contract? Why do you think retro is a given? 95% happy campers are not going to strike ... especially not for retro ... all bluster aside.

 

[Purpledog]

My question is why Fred and Mike don't get together and cut our rates for a couple of months to send DHL and the German Post Office packing.
I'm a union person and I just want a reasonable gain and some areas that aren't much liked (substitution) fixed. I think we deserve gains proportional to the gains that the company has made since our last agreement. I do think the gains need to be more in the mid to lower year groups. Although it would be nice to be a Capt and earn 300k and work 9 months a year, I just can't say that I'm worth that with a straight face.
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One more day of retro pay

 

[klhoard]

...<snip>. . I just can't say that I'm worth that with a straight face.
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One more day of retro pay

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Well, I'm definately worth it. . . (said with a straight face). . . .
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[VaB]

In your last post you implied that you didn't need to be around for any length of time to form an accurate opinion ... you were new, but you knew it all anyway ... or some such silliness. Now you acknowledge that perhaps your opinion would be different if you had been hired at FedEx earlier. Which is it?

As for the 5% unhappy crowd at FedEx ... if 95% are currently happy, what incentive does Fred have to improve any aspect of your current contract? Why do you think retro is a given? 95% happy campers are not going to strike ... especially not for retro ... all bluster aside.

Now BBB, either you are twisting my words to fit your opinion of what I'm trying to say, or I'm not expressing myself very well. Being the eternal optimist and lover of all mankind, I'll go with option B. I find these internet message board discussions a bit confusing sometimes, since what you say and the tone with which it is said is often confused. So, in that light, I will assume I'm not getting my point to you, and I'll also assume that the condescending tone from your last message was an accident.

Anyway, in that first paragraph of your last message, you certainly didn't get the point I was trying to make. I never said I knew everything, I certainly know that I don't. However, just because I've not been here since the Falcons were flying around, doesn't automatically make me an idiot. I also did not say my opinion would be different if I had been here in the mid 90's, I said maybe it would be different.

The entire point of jumping into this thread in the first place was just to comment and point out to a fellow "newby", Ivan, that the blustering he was getting about being a youngster was normal and to be expected by certain demographics.

One last thing, the 5 percenter remark is in regards to only hearing the gnashing of teeth and the dooming and glooming from the 5% on either side of the issue (this issue or any other one, it's not my term). Noone said anything about the middle 90% being happy and ready to take paycuts to make Fred happy. Most guys I talk to know we're going to get a better contract and also know and are willing to work to get a better contract. I just think the other 90% are keeping their opinions to themselves and not screeching like barnowls on the crewbus every chance they get.

And there SHALL be retropay. That's about the only thing everyone does agree on these days.

Alright, Triple B, hit me. And give me one of those beers.

 

[Echopapa]

Cylde,

My first year was fine. I don't work for brown.....thank god. We got paid a "living" wage.

So are you saying that your pay structure at brown is like Amway? A pyramid scheme. Get the new guys to finance the senior guys? Is that how it works over there?

 

[flywhenIhaveto]

If you can't make it on "probationary pay" for a measley 12 months,, boy you are doing something terribly wrong with your finances. If it's such a big issue with you, please don't waste our time, just go away.

 

[Big Beer Belly]

That's pretty standard tactics from the 5 percenters. That is, once you admit you're a new guy, you'll get the "youngster" crap and "you'll be singing a different tune, youngster" crap.

I'll try one more time ...

Why do you believe our Founding Fathers set the minimum age of 35 to hold the office of President of the United States? This is especially interesting given the average life expectancy at the time was barely 40. Do you think they thought everyone less than 35 was an idiot or not entitled to an opinion?

It just might be that the older, wiser, more experienced pilots around FedEx actually have a more ACCURATE picture of what you are up against in negotiations. At one time I was a similar happy camper humming "kumbaya" and skipping gleefully off to preflight my shiny old Boeing 3-holer. The cumulative sum of hostile management vs labor (and all the ways that plays out) will reshape your opinion over the years. I'm absolutely confident you will view FedEx differently (and less positively) in 10 years ... it is the statistical norm.

At any rate, I sincerely wish my FedEx pilot brothers the best in their negotiations. From EXPERIENCE, I have seen "the rising tide floats all boats" theory successfully applied.

Meanwhile, my new virtual drinking buddy klhoard and I will do all we can to raise our respective stock prices by doing what we do the least!

Cheers,

BBB or BBA (for tailkookah)

 

[VaB]

Sweet. I already told my wife that I will probably be a grouchy old man when that time arrives. Wait til she finds out that I've been assured that I'll hate my job also. She'll love it.

 

[Clyde]

Cylde,

My first year was fine. I don't work for brown.....thank god. We got paid a "living" wage.

So are you saying that your pay structure at brown is like Amway? A pyramid scheme. Get the new guys to finance the senior guys? Is that how it works over there?

"I don't work for brown.....thank god."
I could have told you that. A person like you gets weeded out here pretty quickly. How long before they told you no?

BTW, do the FedEx pilots know you are going around pretending to be one of them?

 

[Big Beer Belly]

Sweet. I already told my wife that I will probably be a grouchy old man when that time arrives. Wait til she finds out that I've been assured that I'll hate my job also. She'll love it.

That's the spirit now! After 10 years of marriage you'll be yelling at the wife, "At least my job sucks!" <g>

 

[Echopapa]

Cylde,

You should be embarassed that you voted for a contract that has such low pay rates for pilots who share your profession. Here is an idea for your upcomming contract... pay newhires 10K a year and then you can get a 16K payraise. I'm sure there will still be plenty of applicants for the job. Heck, for that matter, maybe new hires should work for free their first year, a rite of passage if you will, so that you senior guys can afford that condo in florida. Whats that called....let me think...indentured servatude?

There is nothing you can say to me to convince me that 26K / year is an appropriate salary for someone who has the credentials to be hired to fly for Brown.

Thanks to all the Captains that bought me dinner my first year. Almost every airline does that, even the ones with reasonable first year pay. Are the Brown captains buying the new hire's family groceries? How about his children's medical care? Accepting a contract that pays a new hire $2000/ month before tax so that you can fatten your own check is self serving and based purly out of GREED.

Here is a new flash too...not everyone wants to work for Brown. I certainly don't. I would have to take a pay and benefit cut.

I am not proud of our first year pay, but I certainly think that it gives our new hires a fair oppurtunity to stay off food stamps.

 

[Clyde]

Cylde,

You should be embarassed that you voted for a contract that has such low pay rates for pilots who share your profession. Here is an idea for your upcomming contract... pay newhires 10K a year and then you can get a 16K payraise. I'm sure there will still be plenty of applicants for the job. Heck, for that matter, maybe new hires should work for free their first year, a rite of passage if you will, so that you senior guys can afford that condo in florida. Whats that called....let me think...indentured servatude?

There is nothing you can say to me to convince me that 26K / year is an appropriate salary for someone who has the credentials to be hired to fly for Brown.

Thanks to all the Captains that bought me dinner my first year. Almost every airline does that, even the ones with reasonable first year pay. Are the Brown captains buying the new hire's family groceries? How about his children's medical care? Accepting a contract that pays a new hire $2000/ month before tax so that you can fatten your own check is self serving and based purly out of GREED.

Here is a new flash too...not everyone wants to work for Brown. I certainly don't. I would have to take a pay and benefit cut.

I am not proud of our first year pay, but I certainly think that it gives our new hires a fair oppurtunity to stay off food stamps.

"You should be embarassed that you voted for a contract that has such low pay rates for pilots who share your profession."
I hadn't been hired yet, so I had no say on the vote.

"There is nothing you can say to me to convince me that 26K / year is an appropriate salary for someone who has the credentials to be hired to fly for Brown."
I never said it was, nor did I ever try to convince you of it. It's a fact of life here right now. If you can suck it up for one year, then great. If you don't want to deal with it, than go fly for somebody else. My point earlier was that I planned on low pay my first year AT ANY AIRLINE. i.e., I didn't run out and drown myself in debt prior to coming here. The pay sucked, but I was prepared for it by saving up for almost two years and keeping my expenses low, both prior to getting hired and during that first year.

"Accepting a contract that pays a new hire $2000/ month before tax so that you can fatten your own check is self serving and based purly out of GREED."
You can't say it wasn't accepted because of a lack of a democratic process.

"Here is a new flash too...not everyone wants to work for Brown. I certainly don't. I would have to take a pay and benefit cut."
You're right. I guess with only 20,000 resumes on file most people come here so they can build their jet time and become "commercial pilots".

You're probably expecting me to say something derogatory about FedEx. Here's a newsflash for you dude, I would be flying for them just as easily as here if they offered me the job first. Just like Brown, I think Purple is also an excellent place to be. The pilots I've met from there are about the most professional and friendliest people I've come across in this industry.

I wouldn't say I think you are unfriendly or unprofessional, but man, you sure do sound abrasive.

 

[Purpledog]

"The rising tide floats all boats"

I like that. Good luck on your negotiations it will benefit both of us.