UPS Capt. Fired over JS?

[kilted pilot]

Spur,
I would have to debate you on your claim that the FAA/TSA
considers all seats aft of the cockpit door cockpit jumpseats due to the lack of a flight attendant. Our 747's have no door and the FAA allows us to accept o/a jumpseaters. I fully support the PIC retaining the authority to deny the transport on his aircraft of anyone he has a real concern with. I also believe that if Fed Ex can indeed save 40 million dollars each year by moving staff on their own airline, the MEC should find a solution with management to eliminate this expenditure; especially in this ecomony.

 

[Wise Guy]

kilted pilot,

Your carrier most likely operates under Part 135 and not Part 121, as does UPS and FedEx. Unbelievably, the rules are different for offline jumpseaters under current FAA/TSA rules for 121 carriers.

To all those professionals that continue to extend j/s to us poor freight dogs, I extend a THANK YOU VERY MUCH from all of us.

Regrads, WG

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

wise guy
you had replied to kilted pilot that his company was a "135" instead of a '121' company. If he flies the 747 it is a 121 operation, not 135.

 

[plm727]

CARGO jumpseats

Kitty Hawk Aircargo....a 727 operator.....has had their OFFLINE jumpseats open for over a year. The jumpseats offered to OFFLINE pilots are the FA jump seats outside the cockpit. Kitty Hawk has also started placing secure cockpit doors on its 727 aircraft.
Kitty Hawk serves 30 cities or so each nght through it's hun in Fort Wayne.
Jump seats are usually available.
I hope this helps.

 

[Publishers]

Handlers

Handlers and pilots are two separate issues. Handlers, high end couriers, and guards are part of the frieght carriage. Those situations have nothing at all to do with jumpseating by pilots or other emplyee's.

 

[UPS Capt]

A year and a half has gone by, and you people still haven't forced your company to do what it can to restore the offline access

It's not up to the pilots. If it were then we'd be allowing jumpseaters by now. We have very little control over what our company decides to do, nor how they go about doing it. On the other hand, it's not the individual companies like UPS and FedEx holding up the works...it's the TSA/FAA.

Our union (IPA), along with many other airline unions, have been very active in working with the TSA/FAA and each other to allow offline jumpseaters back on our seats and all indications show that work will pay off very soon.

Nobody wants to re-open jumpseats more than the pilots at UPS or FedEx. The pax carrier guys/gals have been very generous about allowing us to jumpseat while we work to reciprocate. Most crewmembers understand what we're up against and know we are working very hard to restore our jumpseats. For those crewmembers I say THANKS!!

 

[Freight Dog]

How come Polar, Atlas, Gemini and Kitty Hawk offer jumpseats while the two largest cargo carriers in the country are still off-limits to offline pilots?

 

[Beaver]

The reason is because Atlas, Polar, Kitty Hawk and many other cargo carriers are 109 carriers and Fedex, UPS and DHL are 108 carriers.

 

[Freight Dog]

Alright, but DHL takes jumpseaters in their A300's because they installed the door. What's the hold up at FDX/UPS?

 

[CatYaaak]

CatYaaak wrote


$hitty generalization...claiming this Captain is just like all those out to break the rules. $hitty.

My post wasn't aimed at the FedEx Captain, and I certainly never claimed that he was breaking any rules. He may be perfectly justified in doing what he did. I was referring to those posters who evaded Alaska's legitimate questions by instead choosing to patronize him and told him to "listen and learn, but be quiet" as if he were some toddler just because he doesn't have many hours under his belt. It's the "be quiet" part that bugs me.

My advice to "watch out for Captains who evade answering an F/Os questions" comes from the experience of having 2 friends who sat by in their F/O seats and watched as their Captains killed them and all those aboard. Getting into the CVR cockpit-discussions is too lengthy to detail here, but in both cases their questions and doubts went unanswered and the evasions unfortunately accepted, which means they share the blame. Yeah, Alaska's question was about JSing, but telling him to be quiet because of he's "inexperienced" is a lesson I hope he never learns.

The only absolute directive I give any F/O I fly with is "If you don't like what we're doing, or don't understand why we're doing it, then you're duty-bound to ask questions. If I can't give you a good anwer, then perhaps we shouldn't be doing it in the first place". I don't care if the F/O has 10 hrs. or 10,000..it makes no difference....I should still be able to back up my actions with a satisfactory answer or I shouldnt' be sitting in the Captain's seat. If not, then I don't even want to fly with me.

Anyway, that's all I meant.

 

[HA25]

PIC authority is a thing of the past, Fedex or no Fedex... this whole business is going to the dumps!

 

[dogg]

Yaak, dude----- no one is telling anyone to sit quietly. But comments and opinions about things that AK has no knowledge of are tiresome..that is all. Questions are great and no one is saying don't ask. And as far as co-pilots watching captains kill them....hmmmm.. I guess if you don't know enough to ask wouldn't that be different than knowing but being afraid or intimidated to ask

 

[active_herk]

Any idea why the captain did this unwise stunt? He most likely knew he would be speaking to "people" for his action?

I don`t think anyone has a problem with Alaska asking the question, just the manner in which he asked it. It may be a matter of semantics, but he could have asked why the captain did what he did. By implying that the capt was unwise in what he did, he is forming an opinion and interjecting here when he didn`t know all the facts. I can see why some may have been a little irritated by this, but I commend Alaska for asking questions. It`s how we all learn.

Freightdog, I just wanted to clear something up. You have mentioned in your posts that FedEx has not installed the upgraded doors in the cockpits, when I know that we are in fact doing so. I just flew an MD-11 that had the upgraded door in it. As to where we are with that program, I am not sure, but it is coming along. I also recently spoke with our union jumpseat representative, and he informed me that we are getting VERY close to a national database of pilots which once implemented will allow offline jumpseaters access to the cockpit one again. I`m not sure, but I think UPS is spearheading this program with the help of many other airlines, so in fact, something is being done to get the jumpseats back. Unfortunately, we all now how the wheels of buearacracy can come to a screeching halt now and again, especially when it is with something that concerns us, but we will hopefully soon be able to get back into other airlines` cockpits, and they will be able to do the same with us.

For those of you out there who wish to jumpseat on us or UPS, believe us when we say we know how frustrating it is for you to not be able to ride with us, and we are as impatient with this whole process as much as you are. We cannot wait to be able to extend the same courtesies to you as you have to us. In fact, many of you may not even be aware, but when our jumpseats are open again, you will not only be able to ride them, but will also be able to reserve them to where not even a FedEx pilot will be able to bump you (and you will still get the 75% discount). I don`t know any other airline that will let you do that.

For me personally, as a commuter I would like to thank all the crews who have helped me get back and forth to work both before AND AFTER 9/11. It is very much appreciated. Take care and keep the faith!

 

[none]

anyone who thinks the few seats in the back (outside the "cockpit") on a fedex/ups plane is "just like on a passenger airline...so why arent th offline jumpseats open" should look up the words Auburn Calloway on the internet....the a fine case of domestic terrorism aboard a FedEx plane and a shining example of why cargo gys needs guns in the cockpit too.

 

[Alaskaairlines]

I don`t think anyone has a problem with Alaska asking the question, just the manner in which he asked it. It may be a matter of semantics, but he could have asked why the captain did what he did. By implying that the capt was unwise in what he did, he is forming an opinion and interjecting here when he didn`t know all the facts. I can see why some may have been a little irritated by this, but I commend Alaska for asking questions. It`s how we all learn.

Freightdog, I just wanted to clear something up. You have mentioned in your posts that FedEx has not installed the upgraded doors in the cockpits, when I know that we are in fact doing so. I just flew an MD-11 that had the upgraded door in it. As to where we are with that program, I am not sure, but it is coming along. I also recently spoke with our union jumpseat representative, and he informed me that we are getting VERY close to a national database of pilots which once implemented will allow offline jumpseaters access to the cockpit one again. I`m not sure, but I think UPS is spearheading this program with the help of many other airlines, so in fact, something is being done to get the jumpseats back. Unfortunately, we all now how the wheels of buearacracy can come to a screeching halt now and again, especially when it is with something that concerns us, but we will hopefully soon be able to get back into other airlines` cockpits, and they will be able to do the same with us.

For those of you out there who wish to jumpseat on us or UPS, believe us when we say we know how frustrating it is for you to not be able to ride with us, and we are as impatient with this whole process as much as you are. We cannot wait to be able to extend the same courtesies to you as you have to us. In fact, many of you may not even be aware, but when our jumpseats are open again, you will not only be able to ride them, but will also be able to reserve them to where not even a FedEx pilot will be able to bump you (and you will still get the 75% discount). I don`t know any other airline that will let you do that.

For me personally, as a commuter I would like to thank all the crews who have helped me get back and forth to work both before AND AFTER 9/11. It is very much appreciated. Take care and keep the faith!

Thanks! I am learning so much on these forums! Lots of wonderul people here!

-Dmitry