UPS "Cancels" Furlough

[BrownTailGuy]

UPS has sent a letter to the Pilot Group telling us that it has no plans to furlough till at least the end of 2004 (in effect cancelling the furlough talk that has been hanging over our heads since November.) The company announced plans in February to furlough up to 100 pilots by the end of September this year and then "Suspended" those furloughs due to military callups and a few early retirements and a leave of absence program.

The company is understaffed and needs to hire. It has admitted that to the union (who has been telling the company this for a couple years.) The buzz around the Union is that there may even be discussions of hiring. This is the first bit of info I have heard coming from the Union since Pre 9/11. I hope this is good news.

As many of you know we are currently in the middle of contract negotiations. Hopefully we can move forward and get something worthwhile soon. But most of the people who have been here for a while have predicted, it will be years until we have something worth voting on.

Fly Safe

 

[H25BCPTN]

That is great news but I have a question. Let say they start hiring next month and the pilots go on strike. Can the new hire strike without loosing his or her job since they are still under probation? I would hate to be between a rock and a hard place.


Thanks

Fly Safe

 

[PilotAg]

Your company is one of the best paying and most secure companies out there. What would you describe as worthwhile contract. I am guessing better working conditions but other than that I haven't a clue.

 

[nightrider]

A worthwhile contract is one with minimum staffing provisions, a 25% pay rate increase (just to get us to industry standard), furlough protection and scheduling rules that will allow us to get the time off we need to have a life.

If you are on probation when a strike occurs, any return to work agreement should include your reinstatement.

good luck
100% ipa
N

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

Decent looking uniforms

 

[Wise Guy]

Right on target nightrider! Too bad it's hard to know how much of the letter to believe. Afterall, the company had to furlough for "very real and pressing business concerns", while turning around two days later and anouncing an increase in dividend payout.

My guess is they saw the vacations coming this summer and realized they couldn't make service without opentime pick up and called a truce.

WG

 

[Publishers]

curious

Just curious Nightrider

Why is it that you feel you should have or be able to tell a company what the minimum staffing should be. Should not the flying required and regulations deal with that issue.

In todays environment, what exactly is the "industry standard" that we are talking about and is that the standard with other freight companies, or, all companies that fly the type of equipment you fly.

Thirdly, assuming that the company does not keep growing along or changes direction, what or why should they be forced not to furlough people if there is not sufficient work in their minds to justify the expense.

From a company point of view, what should be the consideration and was at the time they took the flying in house was consistancy. What you may want to remember is that today they pay much more to fly that equipment than when it was done by suppliers.

In short, there is more than one way to look at things.

 

[jetblue320]

Min Staffing?

Too bad your minimum staffing concerns didn't do anything for the Challenge Air Cargo guys you sent out on the street years ago when you bought them out and threw them aside like a used condom. (and yes, that was meant to be a dart)

 

[armyjets]

Have there been any hiring rumors from HR or the training department based on the letter?

 

[nightrider]

Well lets see. First - No I haven't heard any rumors about hiring yet.


Second
publishers to answer your questions, change that maybe if you pulled your head out of your ass and looked around you could anwer them yourself.

Third
For the challenge air cargo remark. The company did not buy Challenge Air Cargo. They bought the routes. I know nothing about that deal. However if you want to work at UPS interview and get the job like everyone else.

 

[BrownTailGuy]

Jetblue

I am not sure I understand what you mean by "your minimum staffing concerns." It wasn't the pilot group or the union that had anything to do with Challenge Air. It was the Company. And if you know anything at all about UPS you know that UPS is Management and all we are is labor in their eyes.

I believe your dart was directed at the wrong people. Why not chuck it at Atlanta?

 

[jetblue320]

Jetblue

I am not sure I understand what you mean by "your minimum staffing concerns." It wasn't the pilot group or the union that had anything to do with Challenge Air. It was the Company. And if you know anything at all about UPS you know that UPS is Management and all we are is labor in their eyes.

I believe your dart was directed at the wrong people. Why not chuck it at Atlanta?

No you are right, it was the Pilot Group that walked our picket line when they were Teamsters and then stated "Challenge Who" when you bought our "routes" and tossed us aside. Thats OK though. It was Management right? Of course you don't know anything about it.

 

[jetblue320]

Third
For the challenge air cargo remark. The company did not buy Challenge Air Cargo. They bought the routes. I know nothing about that deal. However if you want to work at UPS interview and get the job like everyone else. [/B][/QUOTE]

I'd rather not, but thanks for the offer.


And you are right, they only bought the routes. I thought you knew nothing about the deal. How are the routes working out for you guys, by the way? Good I hope. I only flew them for 12 years on the B757, and then got the axe. Shame on me for not applying to UPS.

 

[BrownTailGuy]

Yeah the pilot group all chipped in to buy your routes and decided to put you guys on the street. Now I know where our union dues go. To put smaller outfits out of business.

That sounds like us.

Management had nothing to do with it.

 

[BrownTailGuy]

Armyjets

Haven't heard anything yet from HR as the letter came out yesterday. I am sure that someone will be calling them soon to see if there is any validity to what the company said. And when that happens we will post it ASAP.

 

[jetblue320]

Yeah the pilot group all chipped in to buy your routes and decided to put you guys on the street. Now I know where our union dues go. To put smaller outfits out of business.

That sounds like us.

Management had nothing to do with it.

Yep, just what I thought. Have a nice flight Mel

 

[H25BCPTN]

Are all the pilots at Jet Blue as sour as you. I would hate to fly with a pilot that feels that life owes him something and to be so blue all the time. Things happen for a reason and maybe if you looked hard enough you will see the purpose of what happen. After all my friends say Jet Blue is a great company to fly for, so let the past be and live in the present and have fun.


Fly Safe

 

[jetblue320]

Are all the pilots at Jet Blue as sour as you. I would hate to fly with a pilot that feels that life owes him something and to be so blue all the time. Things happen for a reason and maybe if you looked hard enough you will see the purpose of what happen. After all my friends say Jet Blue is a great company to fly for, so let the past be and live in the present and have fun.


Fly Safe

Sorry if it sounds as if I was sour. Fact is, I was, but you are 100% correct in saying that there was a reason that it happened that way, and I AM happy at JB (like you'd never know). In fact, in my case, the timing was perfect. I got thrown off of a burning ship into a rose garden. I don't have to look hard to see that.

The thing that irk'd me is that we (the CAC Boys) had worked there for 15+ years and then Big Brown came along and, in a nutshell, ended our career's there. I don't think that is hard to understand especially in these times. Plus, just 2 months ago I finally got a ruling from an Arbitrator (after more than 3 years) that the one years salary that UPS/CAC agreed by contract to pay us severed ones is not going to happen. But, thats another story.

But, to answer your other question: No, not many JB guys are sour. And, I am just sour this week because of my hearing news. I'll get over it.

End of thread.

Take care.

 

[Publishers]

airlines

The fact is that there were a number of airlines that had made the UPS system the "tightest ship in shipping industry" or whatever that catch phrase was.

Evergreen and Orion etc. Those people were for the most part given the choice of going with UPS and or staying where they were. Those that got the call from UPS were quite happy to have the job there.

The reason I posed those questions is that there are issues and reasons effecting this group that are singularly theirs. UPS is a unique company and even different than FEDEX. Those that put UPS in the airline category ignore the true nature of the beast and the fact is that their industry is a rather small group.

If anything, the industry group would include maybe FEDEX, Evergreen, Express.net, and those doing the Burlington and Emery flying.

Another thing that I always found interesting was that in the early years everyone is consumed with building time and in the later years, all seem concerned with how much time off they can garner rather than what is a fair amount of time on.

In case you have not been reading much lately Timerider, the inudustry seems more to be coming to you than the other way around.

 

[H25BCPTN]

I am glad that things worked out for you at Jet Blue. Have fun and fly safe.