Update on SWA f/o arrested for intoxication.

[canyonblue]

BTW, why is it that the TSA smelled booze, but the other crew members did not?

How many of us can actually identify the smell of Ripple, Boones Farm or Old English 40oz? Takes one to know one.

 

[atafan]

What is SWA's drinking policy, 8 or 12 hours? Does SWA have a blood alcohol level that is allowed?

If this pilot only had two beers and a vodka 12 hours prior shouldn't he have had a level near zero?

Thanks!

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Our company limit is .02.... I hope for his sake southwest doesnt have the same.

 

[canyonblue737]

Let's just say based on SWA limits he is not fireable but will need an assement to see if he has a problem.

 

[Hamburger]

This guy will beat the rap. It will cost him a bunch of money and take forever since it's the Feds and they basically have no budget to worry about but he will beat it.

Won't SWAPA provide him with legal council free of charge? For all the bashers out there, that's what ALPA would do.

I've heard that they actually have a clause in their contract that demands that the hotels provide them with discounted beer, wine, and cocktails on overnights, I think it's called 1-2-3. Any truth to this? Talk about a recipe for disaster.

 

[Jim Smyth]

From the report I read it sounds like he went to Brewvies which is right behind our hotel in SLC. Very cool place to hang out but all there draft beer is 3.2 beer! Hardly anything to get your panties in a wad over. Now with that being said I usualy have a few beers with dinner. What would trigger a .039 the next day when I report to work? I dunno. We are all different and our bodies react differently to alcohol. Until we are all issued breathalizers with work and check ourselves before our flight the next day we will never know where we are at unless we dont drink at all! If it was me I would be getting a good laywer, filing a few wrongfull lawsuits claiming I was scared for life and never fly again with full pay!

 

[SWA/FO]

Won't SWAPA provide him with legal council free of charge?

Yes, but it wont be free. SWAPA will flip the bill.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

It could work, maybe we should start a movement.

Just walk up to the screener, sing a verse of "Alice's Restaurant", and walk away.

 

[Benjamin Dover]

Until his blood test comes back, all this is conjecture.

Many brain cells ago I thought I heard a discussion about the blood test request wrt DUI - I think you can ask for one but I don't think the cops are under any obligation to give you one. Granted DUI is governed by state laws, but I think the standard is just breathalizer - take it or lose your license. Anyone know of a "right" to a bloodtest in this case?

Also, isn't the measured reading from a breathalizer call a "BAC" ? This must pass the legal-ese for a "blood" alcohol level, and I know that blood tests are not routinely done for DUI's - breathalizer is all it takes to convict on a DUI.

On a different note, I hope most would agree that this guy should not have gone to work, even if he did just blow under the limit. That being said, what level does it take to put a pilot in jail? What did the America West guys blow, or were they sunk because of the time-stamped security video of them drinking within 8 hours?

I hope it's not ulimately up to a zealous DA and a local Salt Lake jury of his "peers".

 

[3BCat]

Withdrawn by pilots, for pilots.

 

[b747dogg]

Won't SWAPA provide him with legal council free of charge? For all the bashers out there, that's what ALPA would do.

I've heard that they actually have a clause in their contract that demands that the hotels provide them with discounted beer, wine, and cocktails on overnights, I think it's called 1-2-3. Any truth to this? Talk about a recipe for disaster.

Uh, NO never heard of this. No truth to this what so ever!

 

[Saabslime]

Maybe a good lawyer will be able keep this guy from facing any criminal charges but the FAA is going to have a dang good case for revoking his license. Remember, he blew a .039 an HOUR AFTER he was detained.An expert witness will easily be able to show that at the time he entered the aircraft with the intention of flight he would have been over the .04 limit. If I remember correctly there was an NWA FO who was detained in MSP a few years ago after flying in from SAT smelling of alcohol. The prosecution was able to show what range his BAC was in when he took off from SAT based on the amount of time that had elapsed from takeoff to when he was issued a Breathalyzer and the average rate an adult male metabolizes alcohol. I think I remember reading that he would have been over a .10 Simply stupid in my opinion.

At any rate, this guy is facing one big uphill battle.

 

[Uppercrust]

AA717

keep in mind the criminal charge requires .10, not a mere .04.

His walk (from the criminal standpoint) is now a slow stroll and is picking up steam as we speak....

Since violations of FAR's do not provide for a right to a jury or "probable cause" and "beyond a reasonable doubt" minimum, he may have some issues in that arena.

But one bridge at a time....

What happens when you refuse a breathelizer??

 

[Megalops]

The battle will not be insurmountable, uphill? you bet, life changing?, yes but it can be for the better. He will have help through SWA,s HIM,s program if it is applicable after his evaluation. Its not easy and it will be a life altering event if he is diagnosed as being alcoholic, he will have to abstain from alcohol the rest of his career after passing both a psych and cognitive battery of tests and up to two years of monitored sobriety just for starters.
So now I am sure someone will say great now he gets another chance to fly drunk! he should be shot, killed, drummed out, given a shopping cart and some cans and dropped of in down town San Diego!. Wrong, wither you agree with it are not the medical community is unanimous that alcoholism is a disease and the FAA is in agreement. This guy should get a second chance, not a no consequence free pass but a second chance and that is exactly what HIMS is for.

 

[satpak77]

Maybe a good lawyer will be able keep this guy from facing any criminal charges but the FAA is going to have a dang good case for revoking his license. Remember, he blew a .039 an HOUR AFTER he was detained.An expert witness will easily be able to show that at the time he entered the aircraft with the intention of flight he would have been over the .04 limit. If I remember correctly there was an NWA FO who was detained in MSP a few years ago after flying in from SAT smelling of alcohol. The prosecution was able to show what range his BAC was in when he took off from SAT based on the amount of time that had elapsed from takeoff to when he was issued a Breathalyzer and the average rate an adult male metabolizes alcohol. I think I remember reading that he would have been over a .10 Simply stupid in my opinion.

At any rate, this guy is facing one big uphill battle.

I believe he was given a breathalizer upon landing and blew a .05+ and was fired shortly thereafter, no discussion.

That incident was in Jan 2001.

 

[Saabslime]

Second chance my a$$. Alcoholism or not, this guy made a choice to show up to work under the influence. Whether he blew a .039 or a .39 is just semantics. The fact that he blew anything at all shows a serious lack of character and judgment especially when you consider the responsibility we as professional airline pilots are charged with. Would you seriously get a warm fuzzy knowing you just put your family on an airplane with somebody who got a second chance for something like this? And I used to wonder why the rest of the world looks at Americans as being "soft".

 

[satpak77]

What happens when you refuse a breathelizer??

121.458 (d) (2) (f)

http://www1.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library%5CrgFAR.nsf/FutureEffective/19B26F0ED54D9DF4862571960066BEBE?OpenDocument

In addition, some states may have "refusal to submit to sobriety test" laws enacted, some which may or may not apply to aviation.

also lets look at some definitions in 121.1

http://www1.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library%5CrgFAR.nsf/FutureEffective/8BF3EC7863F023AD862571960066BF2A?OpenDocument

Alcohol concentration (or content) means the alcohol in a volume of breath expressed in terms of grams of alcohol per 210 liters of breath as indicated by an evidential breath test under this appendix.

 

[satpak77]

Whether he blew a .039 or a .39 is just semantics.

Actually its "just" the regulations, in this case which states .040.

For a criminal violation, its .10

So its "just" a matter of a FAA violation and/or jail time or none at all.

But I agree with your other comments....I think most of us do....

By the way, I see no FAR violation here nor a criminal violation, based on the laws existing on the books now.

 

[Megalops]

See that is EXACTLY the kind of response I expected from some folks, the same old lack of character, I am an AIRLINE pilot, judgment bs. Look if you know the stove is hot and it has burned you a million times in the past but you still cannot help yourself to keep from pressing your hand down on top of it a problem exists. Character has nothing to do with it, he made a huge mistake and thanks to some people with compassion there exists an avenue to remedy that mistake and NEVER make it again. I'll tell you another secret slick, American Airlines will not fire anyone for an Alcohol related incident as long as they successfully complete the HIMS program, relapse is almost Nil and physicians and surgeons have copied the model.

 

[Wingsweep]

Do you really believe this?

nevermind