United what's going on please

[EmeliaE]

Then why is your load factor in the 70% range? Seems like if everyone wanted to fly SWA it would be higher. You see there are other airlines that people prefer for one reason or another. They are not "hands down the preferred carrier for customer service".

contrail76, you 'truly' seem like someone who is thoroughly informed about 'business models' and 'load factors'.

Keep up your 'Customer Service' though! You seem to know more about that than the above terms.

 

[say again]

I take Amtrack or Greyhound. depending on the length of the trip. In all seriousness, I prefer to fly SWA if possible. It's a more enjoyable experience, even if I have to make 2 or 3 stops and drive further to get to the airport.

 

[spacecadet1]

BS-Most business travelers do not pay for F. They buy a Y ticket or some times a full Y. Their corporate travel flight departments determine who they can fly and rarely it's in F. Yes, the upgrade and FF miles are important, however, if you have been paying attention, frequent flyer miles have been devauled considerably the past 2 years. They are much harder to redeem and cost much more.
The people switching to fractionals are not the First Class AA/DAL/CAL customers-very few. Those switching are the cheap charter customers. As much as an American Airlines frequent first class flyer hates American F, he ain't gonna pony up $75K to fly RT from MIA-LAX when he is just OK with paying $1,500. Not in this economy.

The thing you have to realize is the only reason, and I mean the only reason SW is doing OK, is because of their fuel hedge. Period. Now I do give them credit for getting that hedge correct. We all thought they would be in trouble when their previous hedges expired. But they got it right again.
Don't underestimate the importance of that first class upgrade possibilty. It's very important to the business traveler. Now for the flip-flop crowd on SW, it doesn't matter. Jethro and Ellie May could care less. Although every now and then, we get to hear funny stories from FA's about Jethro in first not knowing what to do with the towel. Believe it or not, Jethro once tried to take a bite of the towel. Not kidding. They just don't offer towels on SW. How would Jethro know?

 

[Hobiehawker]

The thing you have to realize is the only reason, and I mean the only reason SW is doing OK, is because of their fuel hedge. Period. Now I do give them credit for getting that hedge correct. We all thought they would be in trouble when their previous hedges expired. But they got it right again.
Don't underestimate the importance of that first class upgrade possibilty. It's very important to the business traveler. Now for the flip-flop crowd on SW, it doesn't matter. Jethro and Ellie May could care less. Although every now and then, we get to hear funny stories from FA's about Jethro in first not knowing what to do with the towel. Believe it or not, Jethro once tried to take a bite of the towel. Not kidding. They just don't offer towels on SW. How would Jethro know?

Plenty has been said on this forum and the hedges and if anything is true, some will never understand what part the hedges play on an airlines business plan. As we all have learned trying to hash that out is useless.

Now for the reason to choose an airline because of first class is really over rated. I can speak for my family, friends, and business associates that the reason they choose an airline to frequent is because of service, price and possibly frequency. Where I live SWA has plenty of options to get where most people are going either non-stop or one stop. Thats not always the case in many markets that SWA does not serve of course. First class is really nice. But its not worth frequenting a product that has poor service to get an occasional first class seat. And my experience is that the airline business offers poor service. With the exception of SWA.

Here is a story. One stormy friday night in a very busy Chicago Midway airport the SWA flight ran four hours late. As I am waiting in the terminal I notice the entire departure screen were flights running very late. But not ONE cancellation. I was surprised because about a year earlier I was flying on AA and in Dallas they canceled my flight I was on and put me up in a hotel. I asked a pilot I was sitting next to if they might cancel flights because of the weather. And he said that they would only if they could accommodate the passengers on other flights but that would be probably only for a maintenance reason. Otherwise he said they run the flight, sometimes very late.

As a customer, this was a huge difference. I know there are a million stories out there that might be good reasons for this or that to happen. But its about customer perspective. And that was mine.

The fact in my large circle is that if SWA goes there, most people who fly frequently use them. If they don't go there, then one of the other airlines will be a choice.

When I talk airlines with people outside of the airline business, universally you hear how people love flying SWA. But I have never heard, not even one time, how anyone loves any other airline.

 

[StopNTSing]

The thing you have to realize is the only reason, and I mean the only reason SW is doing OK, is because of their fuel hedge. Period. Now I do give them credit for getting that hedge correct. We all thought they would be in trouble when their previous hedges expired. But they got it right again.
Don't underestimate the importance of that first class upgrade possibilty. It's very important to the business traveler. Now for the flip-flop crowd on SW, it doesn't matter. Jethro and Ellie May could care less. Although every now and then, we get to hear funny stories from FA's about Jethro in first not knowing what to do with the towel. Believe it or not, Jethro once tried to take a bite of the towel. Not kidding. They just don't offer towels on SW. How would Jethro know?

I'm not even gonna bother. It wasn't even worth this many keystrokes.

 

[Mach 80]

spacecadet,

SWA would have been doing fine if they didn't have the fuel hedges. They simply would have increased fares quite a bit more than they did. That would have helped SWA and also the other airlines.

Instead, with the hedges, they are able to keep pressure on the other airlines (why help competition?) and force some of them to retract service and allow SWA to either step in or solidify their markets.

So, in summary, SWA would be doing fine with or without the hedges, it simply allowed them some options in strategy instead of the only course of increasing fares to cover fuel costs.

 

[Andy]

Guys my sis and her hubby are regulars on UAL out of SNA DEN SEA and various east cost destinations. They both do 2/3 legs a week and for the last 6 weeks or so they haven't completed a trip without major issues. They know all about weather but some of the stuff they are telling me is just unreal. Whats up ? The place can't be that poorly run..

Just having a bad streak? I got back to flying the line last month after being out on mil leave. Just about all of my flights have gone on time, except when we've had flow control issues in/out of the east coast.

 

[Andy]

For being "The voice of reason" you certainly are an idiot.

Lets talk about leg room fool. Unless your traveling First Class or Business class there is NO comparison. LUV wins hands down.

The boarding issue has for the most part been "resolved" or greatly improved. Much more relaxing. Lets see what else.

Happy employees vs ???
On time flights??
Not getting SCREWED on last minute tickets purchased
Not getting $$$ and 100$$ ti death.
Flights NOT being canceled.

Anything else you would like to add idiot?

Did you bother to assess the frequent flyer status of filejw's sister and brother-in-law?
They're likely both logging >150K miles/yr, making them 1Ks.
That means that they always sit in economy plus with the center seat blocked. That is, when they're not using their free upgrades for F. They have substantially more legroom on United than they'd have on Southwest.
As far as boarding, they are the first to board the plane.
As 1Ks, they don't get nickeled and dimed to death; those fees are paid by passengers who log less than 25K miles/yr on United.
On time flights? Where do you come up with this? While Southwest's on time performance is better than United's (Southwest has a big advantage because they don't have all of the flow control issues into busy airports), Southwest's on time performance is around 80%.
Not getting screwed on last minute tickets? What, do you really think that Southwest is priced differently? As someone who's actually priced out and purchased a ton of tickets, I can tell you that Southwest's pricing model is no different than any other airline.
Cancelled flights? Southwest never cancels flights? Have you forgotten about their overdue inspections that resulted in grounding quite a few aircraft and cancelling flights? Southwest isn't immune from cancelling flights.

In my military job, I logged >125K miles on United in each of the last couple of years. Once you achieve 1K status, you are treated very well. There are a few occasions that you aren't, but it's very rare.

Since the original poster's family is flying out of SEA, DEN, and SoCal, the only LOGICAL choice is to fly United, as United is the only legacy that has hubs in all of those cities.
As for the suggestion that they fly Southwest, I suspect that they'd give a huge thumbs down to that prospect. The customer service that they receive with United is likely not an issue; if they receive the same customer service that I've received as a 1K, they're happy with United's customer service.
And they are likely have memberships to United's Red Carpet Club lounges. Last I checked, Southwest does not offer that service. Having used the Red Carpet Club on multiple occasions, I can definitely say that it's a very nice perk.

 

[Griff]

“Our People are our single greatest strength and our most enduring longterm competitive advantage.”
- Gary Kelly, CEO Southwest Airlines

Yup, must be the fuel hedging!!

I will admit flying on LUV whenever possible. Why? Because I can, best product out there. Y'all take care!

Griff

 

[waveflyer]

Imagine what could be accomplished if UAL's leadership could have that advantage?

 

[pipe]

Okay, there big shooter!

I see a thread discussing flight options between SEA, SNA, DEN and BDL...all places that SWA flies. Therefore the "Fly LUV." No we're better, blah, blah.

If I don't have time to reply with something of substance, I don't spout off with immature posts like "idiot."

There are dozens of other airlines that fly to these places as well. Their pilots didn't immediately jump on FI and begin self-promotion. It's the standard WN Kool-Aid hijack. That's really the point.

PIPE

 

[waitin]

Hey big shooter,
There aren't "dozens of other airlines" that fly those city pairs. If you go to any search site, you'll note that it is only a few that service all (especially SNA with any regularity).
If you read the initial post, ther is concern about one of the major's service.
Therefore, it makes sense to consider the airline that carries more domestic passengers than any other, and to ALL of the cities mentioned.
Regarding the service, SWA also often does this with the fewest customer complaints (see http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/reports/index.htm).

So, big shooter, if you look at the facts, only an "idiot" would not consider SWA, which is all my original "Fly LUV" post was meant to convey.

That is really the point.

 

[waveflyer]

bored...

 

[pipe]

Hey big shooter,
There aren't "dozens of other airlines" that fly those city pairs. If you go to any search site, you'll note that it is only a few that service all (especially SNA with any regularity).
If you read the initial post, ther is concern about one of the major's service.
Therefore, it makes sense to consider the airline that carries more domestic passengers than any other, and to ALL of the cities mentioned.
Regarding the service, SWA also often does this with the fewest customer complaints (see http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/reports/index.htm).

So, big shooter, if you look at the facts, only an "idiot" would not consider SWA, which is all my original "Fly LUV" post was meant to convey.

That is really the point.

You win. You're right about about everything. I am an idiot.

PIPE....out

 

[spacecadet1]

I'm not even gonna bother. It wasn't even worth this many keystrokes.

Is your name Jethro?

 

[contrail67]

Hey big shooter,
There aren't "dozens of other airlines" that fly those city pairs. If you go to any search site, you'll note that it is only a few that service all (especially SNA with any regularity).
If you read the initial post, ther is concern about one of the major's service.
Therefore, it makes sense to consider the airline that carries more domestic passengers than any other, and to ALL of the cities mentioned.
Regarding the service, SWA also often does this with the fewest customer complaints (see http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/reports/index.htm).

So, big shooter, if you look at the facts, only an "idiot" would not consider SWA, which is all my original "Fly LUV" post was meant to convey.

That is really the point.

I hate to tell you but there are alot of passengers that avoid SWA. I know several that I have spoken to that said they will never fly them again. Good thing they have choices. Most of the legacy airlines have about a 80-85% load factor...you see, people know they have a choice....and that many folks CHOOSE to not fly SWA. Only an idiot would think they are getting the best deal on SWA, not just price, which alot of the times they are not the cheapest. A person who is not an idiot will compare (total product) and make a better choice for them...whatever works.
Get over yourself.

 

[spacecadet1]

I hate to tell you but there are alot of passengers that avoid SWA. I know several that I have spoken to that said they will never fly them again. Good thing they have choices. Most of the legacy airlines have about a 80-85% load factor...you see, people know they have a choice....and that many folks CHOOSE to not fly SWA. Only an idiot would think they are getting the best deal on SWA, not just price, which alot of the times they are not the cheapest. A person who is not an idiot will compare (total product) and make a better choice for them...whatever works.
Get over yourself.

The raeson SW has feewer custumer compinats is becase Jethro can't right a leter.

 

[Sluggo_63]

Regarding the service, SWA also often does this with the fewest customer complaints (see http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/reports/index.htm).

I never understood using customer complaints in order to judge customer satisfaction. Isn't that a direct relation to customer expectations?

If the customer has low expectations for the flight (i.e. no meal, no in-flight entertainment, ad-hoc boarding process) there really is nothing to complain about when they don't get a meal, or get stuck in a middle seat.

You assume there will be some amenities flying on a legacy carrier, whether in coach, business or first, so when things don't go as planned, pen gets put to paper.

I don't think 'lower customer complaints' is the same as 'better customer service'.

 

[contrail67]

The raeson SW has feewer custumer compinats is becase Jethro can't right a leter.

He cannot write a letter and also....if you lower the bar and you choose to do that by buying the ticket yourself.....why would you complain?

 

[Mach 80]

>>>Most of the legacy airlines have about a 80-85% load factor...you see, people know they have a choice....<<<

The reason legacy airlines have a higher load factor is because hub and spoke flying creates higher load factors (revenue) while point to point flying creates lower costs. Anyone who really knows airline business knows this fact -- it has nothing to do with "preference".

The issue then becomes establishing the ideal ratio between revenue and costs. SWA, with their primarily point to point flying has a better ratio.

SWA has better pitch (legroom) than most legacies, they have friendlier agents, their flight attendants don't mind cruising the cabin making sure everyone has a drink, they don't nickel and time you for pillows and luggage, and SWA cancels flights less often than other airlines, and they don't hit ya up for huge change of flight fees.

spacecadet, you obviously don't know what you are talking about.