United Pilot to Upset to Fly!!

[Whataburger]

Yes, because I'm sure your group would be much more brave if faced with liquidation.

I've been with two alpo carriers. I was faced with 3 total give-back votes. I voted NO all 3 times. Each "new" contract was passed 60/40. One company liquidated anyway. Mgmt knows that pilots act tough, are scared for their careers, will vote YES down to minimum wage, and will sacrifice their young to take care of #1. Pilot give-backs WILL NOT save a company. I believe that AA is the only company that is pissed-off enough and have gonads large enough to burn the church down. On the other hand other carriers print stickers and remove their hats. Good luck to everyone, this industry takes no prisoners.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I've been with two alpo carriers. I was faced with 3 total give-back votes. I voted NO all 3 times. Each "new" contract was passed 60/40. One company liquidated anyway. Mgmt knows that pilots act tough, are scared for their careers, will vote YES down to minimum wage, and will sacrifice their young to take care of #1. Pilot give-backs WILL NOT save a company. I believe that AA is the only company that is pissed-off enough and have gonads large enough to burn the church down. On the other hand other carriers print stickers and remove their hats. Good luck to everyone, this industry takes no prisoners.

And the only reason why you are comfortable is when it is time for chow, the troops sit down to a nice LUV meal. Take the nice chow away and......

The hate mail that was being distributed between pilots at LUV during the Age 60/65 deal is a clear indication of what can happen at WN if things ever get contentious. (I don't think they will).

A little objectivity on your part might be in order...

 

[CopilotDoug]

The best way to get management's attention is to hurt the bottom line.

Like cancelling a flight? This guys ONE action of cancelling a flight did MORE to get management's attention than the goofy Hat protest. ALPA should be taking notes.

Sidenote: Kudos to this guy for cancelling the trip

 

[CopilotDoug]

No. Don't roll over. However, being in a union has nothing to do wth wearing or not wearing your hat. That's easy compared to actually risking it all and going out on strike.

Exactly. Go ahead and tally up how many "Pipe-Hittin" Union "Brothers" aren't wearing their hats. Now, tell them all to shave their heads, as a show of further solidarity (much like bootcamp - You're not individuals, but a group...ya know?) How many WOULDN'T? Answer: I'd Bet Most.

Point: Wearing/Not wearing a hat is a poor indicator of Unity.

Many of the guys not wearing hats WILL vote for paycuts.

And it will ALWAYS be this way...and it's ONE reason why ALPA is very ineffective.

 

[Whataburger]

The hate mail that was being distributed between pilots at LUV during the Age 60/65 deal is a clear indication of what can happen at WN if things ever get contentious. (I don't think they will).

A little objectivity on your part might be in order...

I never saw any hate mail. Indeed, we did have some old farts and young whippersnappers arguing like they were in jr. high. However, nobody met anyone at the bikeracks. If you have a churchgroup of 6000 folks, there will still be infighting. The important part is that when the smoke clears, we all kiss and make up.

 

[FlyWolf]

You will soon see all Midwest pilots too upset to fly also.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The important part is that when the smoke clears, we all kiss and make up.

Did you?

Also... you have the benefit and luxury of a profitable company...

 

[Whataburger]

Did you?

Also... you have the benefit and luxury of a profitable company...

Yep. Flew with the #1 pilot in the company last month. He was hired before I was born. We talked about it for a few minutes. We're all big boys here for the most part. No sh!t, it's water under the bridge. It blows, but it's done. Some folks are still pissed off that the South came in 2nd in the Civil War. Most grown-ups can accept change, good or bad.


You're right. This is my first airline in my career that is profitable. For how long though? That's what makes this job interesting. I am saving my $$$ like my last paycheck was my LAST.

 

[airlinepilot]

Whataburger is dead-on. Very little problems with our group over age 65. Discussion yes, infighting NO.

 

[pkober]

The hat issue is simply a tool to

A. show the company we are unified &

B identify those that are not with us.

The PIC obviously has rights, he also has a choice as to wether he is with us or not. If not then he gets what he deserves from his fellow pilots.

I agree with the show of unity. That's why I and most of us wear our ALPA pins. We may not agree with ALPA-N but we wear it to support our local causes.

My point is that ALPA-UAL should support this pilots rights as PIC to cancel his flight. The PIC's right's of command should trump all other issues.

I was just curious if they were defending his PIC rights. Anyone at UAL know how they are playing this? Just wondering. Has ALPA-N said anything?

 

[Flopgut]

Did you?

Also... you have the benefit and luxury of a profitable company...

They also have the benefit of knowing that, in reality, they (SWA pilots) had nothing to do with the change. I didn't agree with the age change, but SWAPA's contribution was zip!! Could not matter less!! If they were the only ones pushing it, it never would have changed. The sum total of political clout/influence SWAPA has is not equivilent to the decision ALPA makes on which toilet paper brand to buy.

Again--I did not agree with it--but I will admit it was quite a display of political clout to get the change done.

 

[CopilotDoug]

I agree with the show of unity. That's why I and most of us wear our ALPA pins. We may not agree with ALPA-N but we wear it to support our local causes.

What Unity is that? Bitching and taking a paycut?

 

[Soverytired]

Exhibit A:

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=1614145#post1614145

Soverytired wrote:
"Brother, I hear you. It's very unfortunate that recency of experience can often times trump quality and length of overall experience.

And silly too. A 10,000 hour pilot isn't going to suffer much from a 6-12 month break. But it DOES force him to jump in to the real crap jobs just to keep "currency"."

Starting a sentence with "and" as well as an incomplete sentence. I think you misused the "too" in this sentence that you accused the other poster of doing (should be "to").
People in glass houses..............

Hah hah!

"We have met the enemy, and he is us!"

 

[pkober]

What Unity is that? Bitching and taking a paycut?

WTFO ?!?

 

[SaturnPilot]

Exactly. Go ahead and tally up how many "Pipe-Hittin" Union "Brothers" aren't wearing their hats. Now, tell them all to shave their heads, as a show of further solidarity (much like bootcamp - You're not individuals, but a group...ya know?) How many WOULDN'T? Answer: I'd Bet Most.

Point: Wearing/Not wearing a hat is a poor indicator of Unity.

Many of the guys not wearing hats WILL vote for paycuts.

And it will ALWAYS be this way...and it's ONE reason why ALPA is very ineffective.

I don't really think the guys at United are thinking about taking a paycut, so I wouldn't worry about the non-hat wearers voting for it.

If you believe this is why ALPA is "very ineffective", please tell us what you think other unions (that have gone through bankruptcy) do better to make themselves effective?

Once again, this is only ONE small thing the UAL MEC is doing, so I don't see how it hurts. If you don't see how this program is effective, then I don't think you're looking at the big picture.