United or American?

[Hpilot]

Delta.....oh wait that's not a choice. American!

 

[NDPILOT]

go to med school...was that an option?

 

[General Lee]

Delta.....oh wait that's not a choice. American!

For you, that was probably correct.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Quack]

AA and US have hired less than 200 combined in the last 10 years, while united (cal) and delta have hired thousands. .

Does anyone know how many US Air has hired in this latest round of hiring? Seems like they have hired a lot more than 200 within the last couple years and continue to hire, wondering if there is a more exact number. thanks

 

[airgator]

US hired around 300 this year, and don't forget America West hired every year from 1995-2008 except for '06.

 

[dugan jones]

Does anyone know how many US Air has hired in this latest round of hiring? Seems like they have hired a lot more than 200 within the last couple years and continue to hire, wondering if there is a more exact number. thanks

I was hired in 2007 and have about 500 below me with classes starting every couple weeks

 

[SIG600]

The AA/US FAs are already going at it with each other. Couple that with the US/AW/AA/TWA food fight that is sure to ensue, they are going to have some serious labor strife within the ranks for decades.

 

[RT8VA]

Here is the real problem with this question, you are asking people which they would choose but very few if any have worked at both. The view from the inside is always different and you will only get half the view from every poster because they really can only say what it is like to work at the airline they are employed with. If you end up having to make the choice pick the one you think is best at the time and hopefully it works in your favor. Seniority is every thing so most likely the first to offer you the job will be the one.

 

[ExJmbDrv]

If you sum the retirement numbers posted on APC and assume zero growth/shrinkage, then you hit 50% seniority at Delta one year ahead of American or United. However, I still think you take the first one that dials your number and then the easiest commute if two call at the same time.

 

[skywiz]

The AA/US FAs are already going at it with each other. Couple that with the US/AW/AA/TWA food fight that is sure to ensue, they are going to have some serious labor strife within the ranks for decades.

.......

 

[UALjan15]

Meaningful long term factors (in order of importance):
Retirement picture
Where in the hiring wave you are in
Domiciles
Financial health/debt load
Company culture
Scope protections
Long term/lingering legal battles, especially in pilot group

Factors NOT to base a career decision on:
Current pay
Current management
Contract perks
Advice from buddies
Advice gleaned from FI!

To the OP's question, AA wins out on retirement picture, and it is not even close. Position in hiring wave should be good for both. I can't evaluate some of the other factors without some research. Culture is crap at both, DAL wins here hands down. Tough to tell how SLI comes out at AA, but UAL's result seems cleaner than what AA is likely to end up with. Domiciles are personal preference, but to me, I would predict more hub shifting at AA than UAL (just using common sense here).

 

[DCAA320]

Have you flown either lately? Both are miserable, but I'd put money on American.

Maybe it's you.

 

[Trogdor]

AA and US have hired less than 200 combined in the last 10 years, while united (cal) and delta have hired thousands.

Not even close. I'm an early '08 US newbie and I have roughly 450 guys below me.

 

[Flybywire44]

Not even close. I'm an early '08 US newbie and I have roughly 450 guys below me.

July 2011 hires have just over 400 below them.

 

[aa73]

There is plenty of overlap. Just because there are not nonstop flights that overlap doesn't mean there is no overlap. Also, I can't see how PHX stays the same size. See Cincy and Cleveland. All the gaps in Asia can be handled through JAl and CX. Gaps in the Middle East can be handled through Qatar. I'm not saying it won't be a great career but I just don't see more pilots needed.

That may have been true under the old management (Carty, Arpey, Horton) who were on a mission to shrink the airline into oblivion and let all the code shares do the work. A sure path to Ch 7, in other words. That concept has never, and will never work, in today's airlines.

To capitalize on the benefits of this merger, AA will have to push itself into many new markets, using its own metal. We have shrunk far beyond the others and will be playing catch up for quite awhile. Parker plans to do just that, plus he has mentioned more than a few times that he is not big on code shares.

Echoing what others said: go with the first one that hires you. Short term, you'll make a little more at UAL...long term, it'll be a wash. Seniority wise, I believe you'll rise quicker at AA simply due to the above, plus, I believe we have the highest # of retirements combined with a generally older pilot group.

If Parker plays his cards right, the new AA will be a great place to work. Hopeful...

 

[Green]

AA,

Have you ever worked for Dougie? Ask any AWA pilot how they feel about DP. He certainly will be much more concerned with cost control than expansion. Doug likes to do deals, synergize, trim costs, find efficiencies, and make himself a truck load of money in the process. All he ever talks about is reducing capacity across the industry to re-introduce pricing power. He's about as far away from the traditional growth minded airline CEO as you can get. I hope he makes a big departure from his past and tries to grow the new AA but I'm guessing he will do some pruning.

AA claims they want to hire 1,500 pilots over the next five years. Adding the AA and LCC retirement numbers together it looks like there are about 1,900 mandatory retirements. Factor in another 10% for early outs due to medical or whatever and you are looking at 1,500 newhires to replace 2,100 pilots leaving. Looks about right to me. I'm guessing Doug will use new work rules to increase productivity about 15% and will cut capacity about 10-15%.

 

[aa73]

Green,

No, I have never worked for him. I'm just posting what I think will happen in order to realize the full benefits of the merger.

My personal opinion about Parker is pretty much in line with what you said. However, I think he was limited in what he could do with USAirways: they were basically a niche airline, stuck between a legacy and a LCC, pretty much squeezed out by UAL/DL above them and SWA/JB amongst them. There was only so much growth he could accomplish, and when that capped out, he went down the concessions route.

The new AA will be a whole different animal. Parker will no longer be limited as he was with US. He will have tremendous growth potential and not be limited in what he can do. He will have the opportunity to do what Delta did. In order to do that, however, he will have to put his employees first (as delta did.)

Basically, We're counting on the fact that we haven't really seen the "true" Doug Parker, who was limited in what he could do at US, but won't be at the new AA. As always I'm somewhat skeptical given his past, but cautiously optimistic that maybe, just maybe, he will capitalize on his opportunities here and put his employees first.

A note regarding hiring. AA has ALWAYS deliberately understated hiring numbers for their own reasons. If they announce 1500 over five years, you can pretty much double that number. I'm counting on 2500-300 at least. So any increased work rules/productivity will be more than offset by the hiring. I don't foresee very much capacity cutting, if at all.

 

[AeroDMB]

Green,

No, I have never worked for him. I'm just posting what I think will happen in order to realize the full benefits of the merger.

My personal opinion about Parker is pretty much in line with what you said. However, I think he was limited in what he could do with USAirways: they were basically a niche airline, stuck between a legacy and a LCC, pretty much squeezed out by UAL/DL above them and SWA/JB amongst them. There was only so much growth he could accomplish, and when that capped out, he went down the concessions route.

The new AA will be a whole different animal. Parker will no longer be limited as he was with US. He will have tremendous growth potential and not be limited in what he can do. He will have the opportunity to do what Delta did. In order to do that, however, he will have to put his employees first (as delta did.)

Basically, We're counting on the fact that we haven't really seen the "true" Doug Parker, who was limited in what he could do at US, but won't be at the new AA. As always I'm somewhat skeptical given his past, but cautiously optimistic that maybe, just maybe, he will capitalize on his opportunities here and put his employees first.

A note regarding hiring. AA has ALWAYS deliberately understated hiring numbers for their own reasons. If they announce 1500 over five years, you can pretty much double that number. I'm counting on 2500-300 at least. So any increased work rules/productivity will be more than offset by the hiring. I don't foresee very much capacity cutting, if at all.[/QUOTE

Exactly. Delta even stated hiring 300 pilots this year but everyone knows it's well north of that.

 

[Green]

Basically, We're counting on the fact that we haven't really seen the "true" Doug Parker, who was limited in what he could do at US, but won't be at the new AA. As always I'm somewhat skeptical given his past, but cautiously optimistic that maybe, just maybe, he will capitalize on his opportunities here and put his employees first.
.

Employees first? lol Doug Parker is Lorenzo in Khakis with a Dr Pepper in hand.

 

[airgator]

No way PHX stays the same size

 

[aa73]

Employees first? lol Doug Parker is Lorenzo in Khakis with a Dr Pepper in hand.

That's the first time I've ever heard Parker compared with Lorenzo. Seriously, is he that bad?

 

[Guppiedriver]

He's not that bad. So far he has shown that he favors the majority, so the nAAtives like yourself, will love him. Lol

 

[JumpersAway]

Have you flown either lately? Both are miserable, but I'd put money on American.

Have you worked for either lately? Neither are miserable, but I'd put money on American. ; )

 

[sniper]

If you were lucky enough to have a choice between United or American(now that the merger is official) as a new hire (unfortunately I'm not so lucky) which would you choose under the following conditions:
-commuting to either
-could afford first year pay at either place

I say Delta but whoever hires you first go with them

 

[zasca]

Capacity discipline has been popular for the last few years with all the legacies and southwest... Current Load factors alone practically negate any attempt to shrink

 

[cbrown1]

They have said over and over again they will need to grow. They are still going to be number three in the middle-east, Africa and the Pacific. They have been very open about that and the fact that they will grow. Imo this merger has the most growth potential of any of the last few mergers.