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United and Continental - Scope is NOT for Sale

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Can the merger go on even if the pilots won't agree to a contract because of scope or can the pilots really stop it? Not trying to flame, just trying to get an answer- I've asked if the pilots can shoot it down on multiple threads, but I haven't gotten an answer. I'm sure they can make it more difficult and threaten to make it like USAir all over again, but can they kill the merger with a no vote? I hope they have the leverage so they can use it for a better contract. That bar needs to go up way beyond the dollar offered last time.

No, I don't think labor can "kill the deal.". We're labor. It's the shareholders' company.

Now it's in management's best interest to obtain the synergies this merger is supposed to bring about, which I have read is to the tune of over a billion dollars. How they arrived at that big number I have not seen, but surely a portion of that number will fall upon flight operations and it's pilots. The merged company is not going to get much help from us, however, until we get a fair contract. The posters above can bitch about how "ineffective" ALPA is in their typical cynical matter, but the reality is that we do carry some weight and we can make our corner of the merger "easy" or "hard.". Management most definitely wants "easy." I guess we'll see how smoothly they want things to go in the up and coming months.

I haven't a clue how this scope thing is going to turn out. Our scope is so different, and UAL's so inferior to CAL's, that I'm not sure how you bring the two together. Regardless, hopefully all the guys that are chest beating on this forum are showing up at union meetings, introducing themselves to their reps, calling them on the phone, and letting them know what their expectations are. Flightinfo posts accomplish nothing. Even if you don't like ALPA for whatever your reason is, I'd suggest you start paying attention instead of getting your info from here. You can go back to your regular ALPA bashing after the merger.
 
Spoke with both IAH reps, they both said SCOPE IS NOT FOR SALE!!! There was no beating around the bush, no political jargon, talk or excuses. I am confident that there will be a line in the sand. EWR reps are on the same boat, and what we are hearing is that UAL reps are on board too. Time to take it back!!!!!!
 
No, I don't think labor can "kill the deal.". We're labor. It's the shareholders' company.

Now it's in management's best interest to obtain the synergies this merger is supposed to bring about, which I have read is to the tune of over a billion dollars. How they arrived at that big number I have not seen, but surely a portion of that number will fall upon flight operations and it's pilots. The merged company is not going to get much help from us, however, until we get a fair contract. The posters above can bitch about how "ineffective" ALPA is in their typical cynical matter, but the reality is that we do carry some weight and we can make our corner of the merger "easy" or "hard.". Management most definitely wants "easy." I guess we'll see how smoothly they want things to go in the up and coming months.

I haven't a clue how this scope thing is going to turn out. Our scope is so different, and UAL's so inferior to CAL's, that I'm not sure how you bring the two together. Regardless, hopefully all the guys that are chest beating on this forum are showing up at union meetings, introducing themselves to their reps, calling them on the phone, and letting them know what their expectations are. Flightinfo posts accomplish nothing. Even if you don't like ALPA for whatever your reason is, I'd suggest you start paying attention instead of getting your info from here. You can go back to your regular ALPA bashing after the merger.

I have had numerous conversations with my reps and I am not even on property. I would encourage everyone to do the same. Let them know that scope is not negotiable. The reason for my post on here was to encourage everyone to take action by contacting their union.
 
Labor is going to have alot more leverage than some may think. Scope is key. This merger is a long way from being done. If both sides play their cards correctly, CAL/UAL, it can turn out to be profitable and game changer for the industry.
 
CrucianPilot, you are correct. I don't know how things have changed, nor have I ever actually known what they were like before. I haven't worked for either company; but I have worked at a ALPA shop and a Teamster shop. I really hope that you are correct and your rep's have honor and integrity. I also hope that both unions stand united in defense of CAL's scope. I also hope that UAL mgt is willing negotiate. As was stated earlier in this thread, this could be the last stand for the profession of aviation. I hope the union is successful, I really do. But I think the odds are slim and the furloughs need to ask themselves if it really worth it.

BTW... What are you willing to give up to keep it and expand the scope to United?
 
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CrucianPilot, you are correct. I don't know how things have changed, nor have I ever actually known what they were like before. I haven't worked for either company; but I have worked at a ALPA shop and a Teamster shop. I really hope that you are correct and your rep's have honor and integrity. I also hope that both unions stand united in defense of CAL's scope. I also hope that UAL mgt is willing negotiate. As was stated earlier in this thread, this could be the last stand for the profession of aviation. I hope the union is successful, I really do. But I think the odds are slim and the furloughs need to ask themselves if it really worth it.

BTW... What are you willing to give up to keep it and expand the scope to United?

We are willing to give up our "On Time" bonus checks every month. Throttle 'em back ladies, time for a good 'ole fashioned slooooooowdownnnn. (Once we are legally allowed of course ;) )
 
CrucianPilot, you are correct. I don't know how things have changed, nor have I ever actually known what they were like before. I haven't worked for either company; but I have worked at a ALPA shop and a Teamster shop. I really hope that you are correct and your rep's have honor and integrity. I also hope that both unions stand united in defense of CAL's scope. I also hope that UAL mgt is willing negotiate. As was stated earlier in this thread, this could be the last stand for the profession of aviation. I hope the union is successful, I really do. But I think the odds are slim and the furloughs need to ask themselves if it really worth it.

BTW... What are you willing to give up to keep it and expand the scope to United?

We're not giving up a DAMN thing!
 
I hope the union is successful, I really do. But I think the odds are slim and the furloughs need to ask themselves if it really worth it.

Hate to be a stickler, but WTF are you getting at? The furolughees don't have J O B S if CAL-UAL caves on scope...
 
Nimitz, I don't mind you being a stickler. Your point is correct, what jobs will there be? Answer: Go-Jets. There are furloughed UAL pilots flying for Go-Jets. Thats what furloughees have to look forward to if the union(s) fail. At least they get 2nd year pay. Good Luck, I hoped I struck a little fear into the pilot group to fight harder and throw out their rep's if the act like they may fold and conceed to mgt. I don't want to be melodramatic, but this merger might be the only thing keeping all of us from being "bus drivers" and earning the same wage.
 
Big turboprops, 50 seat RJs, 70 seaters, 90 seaters..... Brand scope guys. Brand scope. Bring that idea back and implement it.
 
Can someone order 10,000 "SCOPE IS NOT FOR SALE" bag stickers?

Every UAL/CAL pilot needs to have these on their flight kits ASAP.

-CF
 

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