United and Continental - Scope is NOT for Sale

[whatitdoing?]

SCOPE IS NOT FOR SALE.

You'd be suprised how many people are fed up with it. We'll take it back, I'm confident.

 

[NuGuy]

The CAL reps have already commited to this. Any TA with scope relief allowing the new carrier to fly anything larger than a 50 RJ will never make it out of the MEC.

Hopefully the tide has turned. Everyone I fly with at DAL has had enough.

Hold the line, and maybe we can give you some backup in 2012.

Nu

 

[jtf]

Can the merger go on even if the pilots won't agree to a contract because of scope or can the pilots really stop it? Not trying to flame, just trying to get an answer- I've asked if the pilots can shoot it down on multiple threads, but I haven't gotten an answer. I'm sure they can make it more difficult and threaten to make it like USAir all over again, but can they kill the merger with a no vote? I hope they have the leverage so they can use it for a better contract. That bar needs to go up way beyond the dollar offered last time.

 

[Clarence]

The future of this profession is in your hands as major airline pilots and the battle for that future is going on right now.

If more and more of the flying we do is done by contract players that are forced to compete with one another for short term contracts, the income and quality of life for all pilots will continue its downward spiral for years to come. I know this notion is most likely not a new concept to most of you, so I am writing this only to give you a little more info in the hope that you continue to make scope the most important issue going forward.

The management of the regional that I work for has a major boner for the next size up of airplanes. 90 to 120 seats. They have all kinds of data and forcasts that show this size is the next big growth spurt for the airlines and they want a big piece of it. Yes, I know, scope should prevent that. But when our management and your management want the same thing, beware.

As it is, the mentality of most regionals is - "we have to be the cheapest to survive." Obviously this is exactly what management wants. Short term (3 year or less) contracts and low expectations for pay or QOL improvements are in the future for all regional airlines. The negotiators for the union at our level do the best they can but have little bargaining power from the start.

The only hope for the profession, wether working for a regional for life or wanting to move up to the majors, is for the bulk of the negotiating power to stay with the pilot group that OWNS the flying.

Please, for all of our sakes, and the sake of this profession, don't let short term thinking dilute your resolve to maintain or improve your scope protection.

 

[mamba20]

I have ZERO problem with 50, 70, 90 and even 120 seat "RJ'S" coming on property IF they are flown by mainline pilots for mainline pilot pay. Period. No scope, No Vote.

 

[ualdriver]

Can the merger go on even if the pilots won't agree to a contract because of scope or can the pilots really stop it? Not trying to flame, just trying to get an answer- I've asked if the pilots can shoot it down on multiple threads, but I haven't gotten an answer. I'm sure they can make it more difficult and threaten to make it like USAir all over again, but can they kill the merger with a no vote? I hope they have the leverage so they can use it for a better contract. That bar needs to go up way beyond the dollar offered last time.

No, I don't think labor can "kill the deal.". We're labor. It's the shareholders' company.

Now it's in management's best interest to obtain the synergies this merger is supposed to bring about, which I have read is to the tune of over a billion dollars. How they arrived at that big number I have not seen, but surely a portion of that number will fall upon flight operations and it's pilots. The merged company is not going to get much help from us, however, until we get a fair contract. The posters above can bitch about how "ineffective" ALPA is in their typical cynical matter, but the reality is that we do carry some weight and we can make our corner of the merger "easy" or "hard.". Management most definitely wants "easy." I guess we'll see how smoothly they want things to go in the up and coming months.

I haven't a clue how this scope thing is going to turn out. Our scope is so different, and UAL's so inferior to CAL's, that I'm not sure how you bring the two together. Regardless, hopefully all the guys that are chest beating on this forum are showing up at union meetings, introducing themselves to their reps, calling them on the phone, and letting them know what their expectations are. Flightinfo posts accomplish nothing. Even if you don't like ALPA for whatever your reason is, I'd suggest you start paying attention instead of getting your info from here. You can go back to your regular ALPA bashing after the merger.

 

[DontFeedTheBear]

Spoke with both IAH reps, they both said SCOPE IS NOT FOR SALE!!! There was no beating around the bush, no political jargon, talk or excuses. I am confident that there will be a line in the sand. EWR reps are on the same boat, and what we are hearing is that UAL reps are on board too. Time to take it back!!!!!!

 

[skywdriver]

No, I don't think labor can "kill the deal.". We're labor. It's the shareholders' company.

Now it's in management's best interest to obtain the synergies this merger is supposed to bring about, which I have read is to the tune of over a billion dollars. How they arrived at that big number I have not seen, but surely a portion of that number will fall upon flight operations and it's pilots. The merged company is not going to get much help from us, however, until we get a fair contract. The posters above can bitch about how "ineffective" ALPA is in their typical cynical matter, but the reality is that we do carry some weight and we can make our corner of the merger "easy" or "hard.". Management most definitely wants "easy." I guess we'll see how smoothly they want things to go in the up and coming months.

I haven't a clue how this scope thing is going to turn out. Our scope is so different, and UAL's so inferior to CAL's, that I'm not sure how you bring the two together. Regardless, hopefully all the guys that are chest beating on this forum are showing up at union meetings, introducing themselves to their reps, calling them on the phone, and letting them know what their expectations are. Flightinfo posts accomplish nothing. Even if you don't like ALPA for whatever your reason is, I'd suggest you start paying attention instead of getting your info from here. You can go back to your regular ALPA bashing after the merger.

I have had numerous conversations with my reps and I am not even on property. I would encourage everyone to do the same. Let them know that scope is not negotiable. The reason for my post on here was to encourage everyone to take action by contacting their union.

 

[Mike man]

"kill the deal."

Labor can absolutely kill the deal--after the fact.

 

[MINIME]

Labor is going to have alot more leverage than some may think. Scope is key. This merger is a long way from being done. If both sides play their cards correctly, CAL/UAL, it can turn out to be profitable and game changer for the industry.