United and CAL SLI for furloughed pilots

[General Lee]

Whatever you do, get the joint contract done first. Then, CAL guys will ask for relative seniority, and UAL guys will go for DOH, and it will go to arbitration. Sound familiar? Good luck to all involved.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[stillflyn]

Being a CAL furloughed guy, I am really curious to get the opinions of some furloughed United guys on what they think a fair integration would be for the furloughed pilots from both sides. This of course assumes a deal is made through the rumored talks that are taking place right now.

It is almost certain that all CAL furloughed pilots will be back on property by the time the operations actually combine (it took Delta almost 2 years from announcing the merger to get the combined operating certificate and I don't even know if they are flying with combined crews yet). In fact, with the airplanes coming this year and next combined with more retirements, CAL will probably have to hire an addition 150-200 guys. I know this is all based on the economy continuing its recovery, but it appears to be on track for a slow but steady recovery.

So, I would make the argument that putting the furloughs (as of the date a deal is announced) on the master list by date of hire would be absolutely ridiculous. There is a good chance I will be back on property as the SLI is being discussed, so to say that career expectations mean nothing to a furlough who has already returned as an active pilot is totally dumb. In my opinion, the most fair thing to do would be to have a clause in the integration that says anyone who goes back as an active pilot before the certificates are combined will be placed at the bottom of the list of active pilots by date of hire, then anyone still on furlough will be placed below all active pilots by date of hire.

Any opinions?

If there is one thing that I've learned in this industry its better to have a great job with ok seniority than a $hitty job with great seniority. CAL & UAL getting together with the two pilot groups working together could help reshape an ok job back into a great carrier!

That being said, the furlough issue won't be an easy one. I was involuntarily furloughed in 2003 with a 99 hire date. I was back in 2006 for two more years and then took a voluntary furlough along with a bunch of other guys. This time the difference is, I still have guys on property actively flying who are junior to me. It's not just me in this situation. We have 747-400, 777, 767 captains who took the voluntary furlough.

There have been a few times in history where guys on the same list who swapped seniority but it has always been overturned through a court order. This happened in 1985 at UAL when D. Farris fired the 570 pilots who didn't show up during the strike that were on probation. The court ordered him to bring them back. When he did he put them at the bottom of the list below about 600 pilots he had hired since then. It didn't last, they had their day in court and got their rightful seniority back.

My guess is the guys that took a voluntary furlough with guys on the property below them that are actively flying will be treated as if on a leave of absence. The guys that are involuntarily furloughed..... who knows. I still think that there will be a lot of weight given to longevity. (time served)

When it's all said and done the most junior guy should have a pretty good job that makes it worth being there for.

Just my opinion, I'll probably end up being wrong..........

 

[75 Driver]

The consolidation of flying and aircraft types would yield a smaller than current workforce. The current projection is that it would entail an additional 1000 pilots on the street.

The only numbers that make sense to make the merger happen is the synergies created by reducing cost to have the same market presence. When Cal get's a real look at how poorly run we at Untidy are, they will either turn and run or slash every aspect of our sillyness.

TK will be history within months, SAM will also have some serious reductions due to it's inherent inefficiencies. These two parts of Untidy are so poorly run on a cost benefit basis that they will not survive either a CAL or a USAir merger in their current configuration.

 

[mamba20]

75 Driver,

Whos projections are those? Does that account for age 65 catching up? Any early outs offered? Planned growth at CAL (not sure if UAL has any) Seems to me like we are getting ahead of ourselves here.

 

[RocketRob]

also how about a "no furlough clause" as a part of the joint contract. Didn't Delta negotiate one of these with there merger?

I know what TK is but what is SAM?

 

[whatitdoing?]

Guys, let's just merge and be fair to everyone. If we don't get on the same page and enjoy flying with each other we'll end up burning the place down. Drinks on me....

 

[Jetjockey]

I don't buy that a combined list would yield 1,000 extra furloughs. I saw once if CAL had UAL work rules, they would need an extra 800 plus pilots. Not even considering over 60 guys who would bail before a merger was consummated.

 

[Yuppyguppy]

The consolidation of flying and aircraft types would yield a smaller than current workforce. The current projection is that it would entail an additional 1000 pilots on the street.

The only numbers that make sense to make the merger happen is the synergies created by reducing cost to have the same market presence. When Cal get's a real look at how poorly run we at Untidy are, they will either turn and run or slash every aspect of our sillyness.

TK will be history within months, SAM will also have some serious reductions due to it's inherent inefficiencies. These two parts of Untidy are so poorly run on a cost benefit basis that they will not survive either a CAL or a USAir merger in their current configuration.

The current projection??? Is this before or after uncle titty parked 100 jets. Do you really think that w/ a merger that labor will be "ok" with more furloughs? What about buyouts for the 747 cpts like yourself. Guys with your seniority last time I talked to one had no idea UAL had guys on the street. Get your head out of the clouds.

 

[ATRCA]

Guys, let's just merge and be fair to everyone. If we don't get on the same page and enjoy flying with each other we'll end up burning the place down. Drinks on me....

I've got a box of matches! Where do I start??

 

[pilotgolfer]

also how about a "no furlough clause" as a part of the joint contract. Didn't Delta negotiate one of these with there merger?

I know what TK is but what is SAM?

SAM is the Maintenance Operation