United Airlines

[Chairman]

570s didn't "walk". They crossed, but according sUAL lore, "they didn't turn a revenue wheel". Which really doesn't cut it when it gets down to it.

We really need to be done with the guys hired in the 80s though. They've had their fair share and I'm done listening to their stories/excuses. All of them!!

Not sure where you are going with the 570. These guys under ALPA's direction were told to go to training just don't turn a wheel. This clogged up the training pipeline to prevent eager line crossers from getting on line fast enough to have a CAL repeat. If you are at all categorizing them as SCABS you are ignorant. The 539 were in training when the strike ended an no one knows what would have been but they didn't have a chance to turn a wheel or support the strike.

Chairman

https://crewroom.alpa.org/ual/DesktopModules/ViewDocument.aspx?DocumentID=48661

 

[Shrek]

But one of his SCAB buddies said different Chairman so it must be true.

 

[Flopgut]

Not sure where you are going with the 570. These guys under ALPA's direction were told to go to training just don't turn a wheel. This clogged up the training pipeline to prevent eager line crossers from getting on line fast enough to have a CAL repeat.]

That is the stupidest story ever. I do not know why you guys buy into it. And frankly most members outside of United don't know either. Every one of these pilots knew what they were hired to do. Making themselves available to be hired made management believe they could break the strike. You want to give these guys credit for only putting one foot across a picket line they helped create? You go dig up some ALPA old timer who paid strike assessments for all this 1980s BS and ask him/her which one of us is ignorant.

This is like what you guys came to believe merger policy was. Something you could make up your own rules on and force ALPA national to go along with. Those days are over. Let's clean all this sUAL backward a$$ crap up.

 

[Shrek]

Keep smokin what yer smokin Slick.

 

[Chairman]

Just make stuff up and tell yourself its the truth.

It's not worth arguing with ignorant people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

 

[Shrek]

Just make stuff up and tell yourself its the truth.

It's not worth arguing with ignorant people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Excellent point.

 

[Flopgut]

ALPA: THE PILOT’S UNION

Local Council 171

July 1, 2014

Houston:



My apologies for preaching to the Choir, but yesterday I took an unusually troubling call. Evidently, a Pilot was refused the jump seat because he didn’t have an ALPA pin on his tie. I know said Pilot and have seen him with his ALPA pin on his lapel; he certainly is not the enemy. Regardless of that fact, his family was boarded, and one of “ours” decided to take it upon himself to be judge and jury and deny said Pilot the jump seat.



As background, I’ve been an ALPA LEC Rep longer than most. I have absolutely no ambition to politically elevate myself to an MEC or National level committee position. Michael and I have been totally inclusive with regards to both the LCal and LUal pilots who want to move forward and serve on LEC 171 Committees. LC 171 is the first fully integrated Council; the IAHCPO is the first fully integrated Flight Office at United.



Please don’t mistake this as a plea for guys to stop wearing their legacy regalia. In contrast, I implore you to keep wearing it. I implore those individuals to keep verbally vocalizing your dissatisfaction with your legacy brethren. From an administrative standpoint, your brazen disrespect removes any doubt about your position, your lack of professionalism and your immaturity. Your venom will be handled accordingly.



Don’t ever get it wrong. LC 171 has an excellent record of good representation; we have not lost a Pilot to termination since I assumed office. LC 171 has achieved such success because we empower our volunteers to do what they do best: Advocate for our Pilots. The LC 171 committee structure is just about even (50% LCal, 50% LUal) and we operate in an environment of mutual respect. If this works in IAH, it can work in the rest of the bases. What we don’t need in IAH is any help from the peanut gallery. The volunteers in the 171-committee structure work tirelessly to promote our profession, and they don’t receive monetary compensation for said work. I couldn’t care less whether LUal or LCal hired them; our volunteers are more concerned about where we are going then where we came from.



I acknowledge that history/heritage is important. Discuss this amongst those who share that lineage. When not in that company, keep your mouth shut. Any idiot who deems it prudent to berate, undermine or insult his fellow Pilot is not someone 171 needs in IAH; If that is you, I implore you to seek a Council Bypass and get out of Houston because we don’t want or need you. Team smisek’s incompetence threatens our collective livelihoods continuously. LC 171 has no confidence in smisek or his team. Until the UAL board figures out that the emperor wears no clothes, we need the Pilots to coalesce. I remain pubescently optimistic that we can do this. I certainly admit that I don’t like this merger. But this merger is done, and no one cares whether I like it or not. No one cares whether you like it or not. What I do value is the support of the LC 171 volunteers. I’ll never run for re-election. “Thankless work” is an understatement.



We suffer from a leadership vacuum with team smisek at the helm. The only tool we have is UNITY. Please realize and remember that your legacy brethren are not your enemy.

 

[densoo]

.................

 

[waveflyer]

Interesting you post that Flop
You've been all about team Cal pilots

Great letter though-

We aren't at a no confidence vote by any stretch but our air tran merger is done as well and it's a good message for all of us who have been through it lately

 

[Double Shot]

What ever you say don't say the word scab...Even if said person is a scab.
Thank God I don't work there anymore. What a dysfunctional place. A place that forgets its past and places homage to the SCAB!

 

[General Lee]

Interesting you post that Flop
You've been all about team Cal pilots

Great letter though-

We aren't at a no confidence vote by any stretch but our air tran merger is done as well and it's a good message for all of us who have been through it lately

Your management shouldn't have gotten involved with your merger seniority list. No AT 737 Capts allowed to flow over as a 737 Capt when AT brought extra 737s to the party? That will never be forgotten. Good luck with that. You guys had two mergers to watch prior to yours, and you went the wrong way. Loyalty towards your company will likely be lacking by at least 1/3 of your pilot list for years and years.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Flopgut]

Interesting you post that Flop
You've been all about team Cal pilots

Great letter though-

I'm in agreement with our chairman completely. I don't agree with the UAL guys trying to overlay their completely backward a$$ way of looking at things onto the membership going forward. (This tie thing is ridiculous. I wear a pin on my tie, but if someone doesn't happen to have one there, well ok) Keep the BS out of the operation completely. No JS BS or clickers or anything.

The CAL list includes names of pilots who "didn't turn a revenue wheel"...

Notice that Eaglesview is staying out of this argument... He knows there's an issue with the sanctity of the list on the UAL side... They gave him a job so he chooses his words carefully.

 

[chppr5]

I'm in agreement with our chairman completely. I don't agree with the UAL guys trying to overlay their completely backward a$$ way of looking at things onto the membership going forward. (This tie thing is ridiculous. I wear a pin on my tie, but if someone doesn't happen to have one there, well ok) Keep the BS out of the operation completely. No JS BS or clickers or anything.

The CAL list includes names of pilots who "didn't turn a revenue wheel"...

Notice that Eaglesview is staying out of this argument... He knows there's an issue with the sanctity of the list on the UAL side... They gave him a job so he chooses his words carefully.

It's ironic that the guy who refuses to wear a pin ran to the union to complain. Talk about backward a$$!!

 

[bizicmo]

Why is that backwards? If he is a dues paying member in good standing that is exactly where he should go.

 

[chppr5]

Looking for support from an organization they don't support (sans pin).

 

[chppr5]

I'm in agreement with our chairman completely. I don't agree with the UAL guys trying to overlay their completely backward a$$ way of looking at things onto the membership going forward. (This tie thing is ridiculous. I wear a pin on my tie, but if someone doesn't happen to have one there, well ok) Keep the BS out of the operation completely. No JS BS or clickers or anything.

The CAL list includes names of pilots who "didn't turn a revenue wheel"...

Notice that Eaglesview is staying out of this argument... He knows there's an issue with the sanctity of the list on the UAL side... They gave him a job so he chooses his words carefully.

Hey Flop, you keep taking jabs at 570's without actually being involved with the realities at the time. Suspect or not I look to the guys that lived it, both sides, to come to a reasonable opinion. Just like modern day mergers there are 2 templates to reference, DAL/NWA and UAL/CAL, one successful the other not so much. Rewind 30 years. At the time of the CAL strike the powers at CALPA decided their game plan would be to hope the integrity of the majority of the pilot group and new hires would be enough to stand up to management and not cross the picket line. That, in hind sight, was a failed strategy. A couple years later the leaders at UALPA decided to think outside the box and go with the plan to gum up the training department and thru the grape vine tell the new hires to take the job but do not turn a wheel. Again hoping the integrity of the majority of the pilots and new hires would break managements resolve. Two templates, one successful the other not. In that decade, PATCO, CAL, UAL and EAL, this industry was being assaulted by management with the help of a labor unfriendly administration. UAL's strike was a success in a decade of labor war, hence the importance and meaning of the ALPA pin. That pin is unity, not an LEC communication welcoming scabs and scab sympathizers and ostracizing staunch unionists. Hopefully people like you that wear the pin can educate those that don't. The unity of this group is walking in lock step not not a letter from reps calling out a sub group. The pin is a very emotional subject on the LUAL side, as stated above, for good reason......Maybe Ben's message should have been " wear the pin"

 

[redflyer65]

Keep smokin what yer smokin Slick.

He's been smoking that sh!t for years.

The facts according to Flop. Rather delusional.

 

[Flopgut]

UAL's strike was a success in a decade of labor war, hence the importance and meaning of the ALPA pin. That pin is unity, not an LEC communication welcoming scabs and scab sympathizers and ostracizing staunch unionists. Hopefully people like you that wear the pin can educate those that don't. The unity of this group is walking in lock step not not a letter from reps calling out a sub group. The pin is a very emotional subject on the LUAL side, as stated above, for good reason......Maybe Ben's message should have been " wear the pin"

There are a large number of CAL pilots who won't wear the pin, or won't wear it on their tie, who were either Frontier or were TI or old CAL strikers. And it's because is such an important thing to a group like UAL that they won't put it on their tie. Because the larger truth is simply putting a pin on your tie does not make you a "staunch unionist". Actions do that, and the actions of sUAL pilots do NOT measure up to "staunch unionist".

You don't get this (I doubt you ever will) but the truth is there is something very much worse than a scab. And that's a pilot who claims to be a "staunch unionist" who preaches about a pin on a tie or claims the union is most important, but then stuffs a knife in the back of a fellow member. UAL pilots are the worst offenders in this regard, and you merged with the wrong pilot group to think you'll ever make a case otherwise.

 

[FlyinGuy]

I disagree with that last paragraph!

 

[chppr5]

You don't get this (I doubt you ever will) but the truth is there is something very much worse than a scab. And that's a pilot who claims to be a "staunch unionist" who preaches about a pin on a tie or claims the union is most important, but then stuffs a knife in the back of a fellow member. UAL pilots are the worst offenders in this regard, and you merged with the wrong pilot group to think you'll ever make a case otherwise.[/QUOTE

This is where YOU are wrong. You've been hanging around SCABS so long you actually think there is something worse. Make no mistake a union brother is a UAL pilot, DAL,FAL,AAG (pick any other airline) is more like a step brother. We are UAL pilots, we lookout for and take care of UAL pilots. My union is UALPA!!!
One last thing, because I'm pretty much done debating SCAB lovers, a LCAL pilot calling out another group for lack of integrity is comical and amusing, but thanks for the laugh!!