United Airlines

[bizicmo]

Looking for support from an organization they don't support (sans pin).

I think the dues cover the support. The way you word I can wear the pin and keep the dues in my pocket. If that's the case I'll where 50 pins, support the union 50x you, and keep the dues. So does this guy deny jumpseaters from non union companies, they don't support alpa. How about airlines with different rival union?

 

[nimtz]

It's ironic that the guy who refuses to wear a pin ran to the union to complain. Talk about backward a$$!!

Actually he ran to management first.

 

[Flopgut]

One last thing, because I'm pretty much done debating SCAB lovers, a LCAL pilot calling out another group for lack of integrity is comical and amusing, but thanks for the laugh!!

Yeah, I like scabs a lot less than you and your fellow sUAL clowns like 570s. So when the list gets re-written and they're on it, don't forget how enthusiastically all you sUAL guys supported them. You're pathetic. And fraternally, a complete joke

 

[eaglesview]

I'm in agreement with our chairman completely. I don't agree with the UAL guys trying to overlay their completely backward a$$ way of looking at things onto the membership going forward. (This tie thing is ridiculous. I wear a pin on my tie, but if someone doesn't happen to have one there, well ok) Keep the BS out of the operation completely. No JS BS or clickers or anything.

The CAL list includes names of pilots who "didn't turn a revenue wheel"...

Notice that Eaglesview is staying out of this argument... He knows there's an issue with the sanctity of the list on the UAL side... They gave him a job so he chooses his words carefully.

Your a pain in the a$$. If you mean UAL as " they" gave me a job then you are correct. CAL didn't because I didn't even consider applying. I stay out of these things because they are a complete waste of time. I completely disagree with using the JS as a tool for ANY agenda. I wear a pin. I am very pro union. I think we could do better than ALPA but they are the union on the property and I will support them. But more importantly I wear the pin as a visual statement to other pilots that I have your back. It is also a visual statement to management that I am part of the collective bargaining organization on the property.

When I see pilots wearing the pin I greet them accordingly. I am happy to see them regardless of their legacy affiliation.

Did I choose those words carefully enough for you?

 

[Flopgut]

Yes. Well said.

 

[RT8VA]

ALPA welcomed the CAL scabs with open arms under Dwayne and they proudly wear the same pin. The pin simply does not have the same meaning at CAL. There are a lot of pin wearing pilots that would cross a line when faced with losing some thing even though they talked tough for the last 20 years. Wearing a pin doesn't prove you have my back actions do. I had a good pin conversation with a 747 Lual captain the other day and I understand why he wears it and he understands why I no longer do. My friend was on the employee shuttle with an out of uniform Lual pilot and she was nasty about his lack of a pin and on her way off the bus mumbled something under her breath and scurried to her car like a coward. Have a conversation like an adult or the pin wearer in your jump seat may be a scab while the guy/gal you left behind is prob a MIGS who has walked a picket line in his past job like many of us non pin wearers have.

 

[Flopgut]

Make no mistake a union brother is a UAL pilot, DAL,FAL,AAG (pick any other airline) is more like a step brother. We are UAL pilots, we lookout for and take care of UAL pilots. My union is UALPA

Anyone else have a problem with this? So is Chppr saying a "step brother" can get run over? Can get excluded from ALPA National policies, like merger? Like FAL was, and USAir and America West were to be? Some of you may agree with him, but I'm not cool with it. ALPA has to mean something more than that... IMHO, if you use the fraternal aspect of a national union to enforce a picket line, then you damn well better take those pilots when you take their airplanes!! It's ridiculous to hold everyone to a certain standard and then have no real commitment to follow through ourselves.

Or let's stop pretending alpa is a national union and make our own? I could get interested in that.

 

[chppr5]

Anyone else have a problem with this? So is Chppr saying a "step brother" can get run over? Can get excluded from ALPA National policies, like merger? Like FAL was, and USAir and America West were to be? Some of you may agree with him, but I'm not cool with it. ALPA has to mean something more than that... IMHO, if you use the fraternal aspect of a national union to enforce a picket line, then you damn well better take those pilots when you take their airplanes!! It's ridiculous to hold everyone to a certain standard and then have no real commitment to follow through ourselves.

Or let's stop pretending alpa is a national union and make our own? I could get interested in that.

Just like LCAL treated their union brothers when they proposed 1 for 1 Cap and F/O and stapled 3000+ of us to the bottom of their SLI pipe dream? GMAFB!!

 

[Flopgut]

Just like LCAL treated their union brothers when they proposed 1 for 1 Cap and F/O and stapled 3000+ of us to the bottom of their SLI pipe dream? GMAFB!!

Yeah, we did that. Scared you pretty good didn't it? Brought your proposal right to the center of the plate. Don't forget: That was part of the process we were both participating in. That was "tough love" on our part, but we both stayed within the merger policy process.

That's something we've done before over here. In fact, the Frontier integration into CAL was done so appropriately that your own sUAL proposal used it as an example of what you felt you all were entitled to! I realize you can't wrap your mind around this, but that was in infinitely poorer taste than our proposal was. The same judges/lawyers and alpa hot shots were all near the goings on when you flushed Frontier. It was Nicalua who integrated FAL into CAL! No one who read your proposal didn't know what you did, it wasn't that long ago really Hubris/arrogance like that usually doesn't occur around professional groups. It was sickening really...

 

[eaglesview]

Hey chppr5.......Flops.......how's that view in the rear view mirror? SLI is over....just in case you missed the memo. Our issue is with Uncle Jeff.......we don't figure that out soon all your issues of the past will be meaningless.

 

[maru657]

Speaking of issues, tie pins it should be entertaining to see the UAL-MEC try to address any old Frontier pilots stll flying for Continental. I suspect that any UAL picket line will be treated with derision for a few more years.

 

[Ex737Driver]

I'm gonna stick with the fish theme. Seems right. Minnow it is.

 

[SpauldingSmails]

On the tangential topic of UAL and union politics, has anyone had any experience or contact with the 747 F/O seeking the President's office?

 

[nimtz]

Speaking of issues, tie pins it should be entertaining to see the UAL-MEC try to address any old Frontier pilots stll flying for Continental. I suspect that any UAL picket line will be treated with derision for a few more years.

Cannot imagine there are more then about a dozen original Frontier guys left.

 

[Flopgut]

Probably about right. Most would have retired mid to late 90s. Which, if you think about it, would have really changed the shape of this SLI.

UAL didn't succeed in their strike, so much as the succeeded in keeping Lorenzo away. Frank wanted FAL. Not the planes, but the pilots. And more importantly, the FAL pilots fully funded retirement plan. UAL's Rick Dubinsky was more than happy to help Frank out. He made sure he got the airplanes and Frank got the FARP (which Frank did indeed raid in its entirety).

Why is this important now? Because we have a bunch of sUAL hired in the 80s and 90s who don't know the real history of things. They're so clueless they can't even steer clear of mentioning the CAL/FAL merger in order to further their own needs. CAL pilots, all of them, need to step up and make sure these sUAL pilots know that they benefitted more, from a more heinous act, than anyone at CAL

 

[chppr5]

Probably about right. Most would have retired mid to late 90s. Which, if you think about it, would have really changed the shape of this SLI.

UAL didn't succeed in their strike, so much as the succeeded in keeping Lorenzo away. Frank wanted FAL. Not the planes, but the pilots. And more importantly, the FAL pilots fully funded retirement plan. UAL's Rick Dubinsky was more than happy to help Frank out. He made sure he got the airplanes and Frank got the FARP (which Frank did indeed raid in its entirety).

Why is this important now? Because we have a bunch of sUAL hired in the 80s and 90s who don't know the real history of things. They're so clueless they can't even steer clear of mentioning the CAL/FAL merger in order to further their own needs. CAL pilots, all of them, need to step up and make sure these sUAL pilots know that they benefitted more, from a more heinous act, than anyone at CAL

There you go again trying to deflect and mitigate what the SCABS did. I guess I should have asked this before, are you a SCAB?

 

[maru657]

I think Flopgut has some inside knowledge regarding the mess perpetuated by the UAL MEC in 86 and frankly I never crossed a line but I would cross a UAL line.

 

[eaglesview]

I think Flopgut has some inside knowledge regarding the mess perpetuated by the UAL MEC in 86 and frankly I never crossed a line but I would cross a UAL line.

Flops has an axe to grind. He has been harping about this for a couple of years.
You however think some anonymous guy or gal who may or may not work for CAL ( you never know on here ) has some inside scoop on events that happened 30 years ago. That's all the info you need to declare " I would cross their picket line." I guess you wouldn't care what the issues were today as opposed to 30 years ago. Shows real intelligence on your part....but with that in mind you would make a typical " Richard Noggin $cab."

 

[ATRCA]

Hey chppr5.......Flops.......how's that view in the rear view mirror? SLI is over....just in case you missed the memo. Our issue is with Uncle Jeff.......we don't figure that out soon all your issues of the past will be meaningless.

Meaningless. There is no unity. Never will be. Anyone preaching unity is either stupid or terribly naive.

There are only sides and interests. Occasionally the interests align and the sides stop hating one another. It's a forced merger. None of us wanted it and none of us care in the least about the other guys legacy, ideas or culture. Simple human nature. Only time (10 yrs or more) and retirements will cure it.

That doesn't mean we can't get along and work together. We certainly can and do, so long as neither of us opens up. I have no objection or issue at all flying with UA types. Been good so far but I'm not fooled. I'm no more interested in hearing about the old United then he is hearing about Continental. Best thing to do is fly, eat drink, fly again and keep the chatter simple.

 

[Flopgut]

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There you go again trying to deflect and mitigate what the SCABS did. I guess I should have asked this before, are you a SCAB?

I'm not. But I'm also one of the non scabs over here that voted against ALPA representation. Both because I don't trust National (still don't) and I didn't think some of fellow CAL pilots deserved to be forgiven. But, when National needs $ they have some conveniently adjustable principles. So really you and I ought to see more eye to eye, but we don't. Because if you keep pointing fingers at CAL guys, I'm going to keep pointing them at your guys. And I'm comfortable with that because I know I'm right. What you don't get is that Lorenzo and the guys he hired are not really the problem. We shouldn't forgive or forget, but we can't focus on them. Let them be and thank God you're not one of them (it's a bigger burden on them than you and I realize) We have to band together in simple terms with other pilot groups. Like maybe apart from National and at just the MEC level. Or something like that. A Delta pilot can't be looked at like a "step brother" (your words), or in some other feudalistic way. We have a short opportunity before they start flying these things like drones or find some legitimate way to train 3rd world pilots. Idk, all we can do is attempt to look at each other's positives and try to steer National exactly where we want them to go. But I'm not willing to do things your way. I'm not going to run around with a less than complete or inaccurate list demeaning people, and I'm not going to stare down my nose at a Delta or American pilot. You're going to have to come to the middle.