Union getting serious at CitationAir

[TimsKeeper]

Nope, your at-will, can be fired without just cause and currently have a parent/child relationship with your management. Knowledge of this fact is evident on the faces of every CA, Flex and Avantiar pilot I see out on the road.

Are you still aloud to have an opinion? You better get permission from your union first.

 

[RCR5]

Nope, your at-will, can be fired without just cause and currently have a parent/child relationship with your management. Knowledge of this fact is evident on the faces of every CA, Flex and Avantiar pilot I see out on the road.

Well, you are right. We are at will...thank you very much. That means people have to WORK to keep their jobs and not hide behind a union to 'get over'.

We can be fired without just cause, but we work at CitationAir and that has never happened here so I am sure it won't start now.

We probably do have a parent/child relationship between management and the pro union lemmings because they act like children and need to be fired....but CA is too nice to that, so they just babysit them.

 

[RCR5]

BTW, that look you see on our faces is disbelief at why you are wearing two different color socks in uniform.

 

[wacoflyr]

Nope, your at-will, can be fired without just cause and currently have a parent/child relationship with your management. Knowledge of this fact is evident on the faces of every CA, Flex and Avantiar pilot I see out on the road.

There is no firmer base from which to make sweeping statements than complete ignorance. I don't know about the other two companies(and have enough sense not to claim I do) but at Avantair we have a process to contest a pilot's termination; it has been used successfully.
I would not judge all of NetJet's pilot's faces, but expect your's constantly reflects the bliss and peace that ignorance brings.

 

[dime line]

We can be fired without just cause, but we work at CitationAir and that has never happened here so I am sure it won't start now.

Ok, then i guess it took FLOPS about 10years before they decided to fire 70 pilots with out just cause. I guess management just "felt" like doing it.

 

[G4dude]

There is no firmer base from which to make sweeping statements than complete ignorance. I don't know about the other two companies(and have enough sense not to claim I do) but at Avantair we have a process to contest a pilot's termination; it has been used successfully.
I would not judge all of NetJet's pilot's faces, but expect your's constantly reflects the bliss and peace that ignorance brings.

Bravo, Waco!

 

[G4dude]

Ok, then i guess it took FLOPS about 10years before they decided to fire 70 pilots with out just cause. I guess management just "felt" like doing it.

I always figured a company has the right to fire me for any reason they want, just like I have the right to take any other job I want. The job is the company's to do with as they see fit, seems to me. In summary, my union doesn't speak for me, I speak for me.

 

[Grizz]

I always figured a company has the right to fire me for any reason they want, just like I have the right to take any other job I want. The job is the company's to do with as they see fit, seems to me. In summary, my union doesn't speak for me, I speak for me.

Then you should go find another job where your self-actualization will be fully appreciated. Until then, you are part of a union - like it or not.

Like I've said before, if you really had the courage of your convictions, you'd make the same statements and stand behind them with your real name over on our board. I would honestly think higher of you if you did that - even if I disagree with your statements. As it stands, you cower behind some screen name and toss out tripe without any real commitment.

I've always posted here where people know who I am and I stand behind my posts. How about you grow a pair and do the same G4?

 

[Praetorian]

There is no firmer base from which to make sweeping statements than complete ignorance.

That was really good. Did you find it in a fortune cookie?

I don't know about the other two companies(and have enough sense not to claim I do) but at Avantair we have a process to contest a pilot's termination; it has been used successfully.

What you have is a couple of pilots -hand picked by management- who participate in a show trial, kangaroo court, where management ultimately has the final say.

What you don't have is, a contractually mandated discovery process, prior to presenting the pilots case (with the assistance of a union lawyer) to a system board made up of two union pilots two managers and most importantly a neutral arbitrator, who will rely of years of legal president to determine if there is just cause for termination. Essentially management must prove just cause for termination, which is a very high standard to meet.

I would not judge all of NetJet's pilot's faces, but expect your's constantly reflects the bliss and peace that ignorance brings.

I work for Flight Options not NetJets. But I notice they carry themselves with the pride that comes from having escaped the trap of at will employment. The pride that comes from having a say in the way their company is run. The confidence that comes from knowing they can't be jacked over by some middle management punk trying to make his bones.

 

[wacoflyr]

That was really good. Did you find it in a fortune cookie?

Actually, no. I should have given credit. That's a really old saying, and of course I did not come up with it. I should have put it in quotes.

What you have is a couple of pilots -hand picked by management- who participate in a show trial, kangaroo court, where management ultimately has the final say.

Once again, you state as facts what you do not know. The pilots are our PAC, which the pilots vote for. Management has no say in who we choose, and I suspect management wishes at least two of them were gone.

What you don't have is, a contractually mandated discovery process, prior to presenting the pilots case (with the assistance of a union lawyer) to a system board made up of two union pilots two managers and most importantly a neutral arbitrator, who will rely of years of legal president to determine if there is just cause for termination. Essentially management must prove just cause for termination, which is a very high standard to meet.

That all sounds like a lot of money to accomplish the same thing. Just an opinion. How much do you guys pay in dues? So, to figure your compensation, take your gross, subtract your union dues along with everything else. I like our system.

I work for Flight Options not NetJets. But I notice they carry themselves with the pride that comes from having escaped the trap of at will employment. The pride that comes from having a say in the way their company is run. The confidence that comes from knowing they can't be jacked over by some middle management punk trying to make his bones.

Ah! There I go, falling in the same trap, making assumptions. I guess we both made mistakes here.

Actually, I don't hate unions. From the outside, it looked like Flops needed one. I would probably have voted for it, if I worked there. But I don't work there, I work here, at Avantair. In my opinion, we don't need one.