Union getting serious at CitationAir

[rettofly]

Nope, your at-will, can be fired without just cause and currently have a parent/child relationship with your management. Knowledge of this fact is evident on the faces of every CA, Flex and Avantiar pilot I see out on the road.

I survived five years of the at-will parent-child environment at Avantair. The secret: Do the job in a proactive, professional manner and stand your ground when issues arise that make it necessary to do so.

On the other side of the coin, I was fired from my previous job (my first ever union job after 40+ years in the work force) because the Captain screwed up and convinced me that he had straightened it out with the CP. Silly me. I believed him and failed to throw him under the bus. My Union, which had been collecting my dues via payroll deduction, didn't lift a finger and the steward who was "representing" me didn't say a word during the exit interview.

Forgive me if I'm not a big fan of unions.

 

[gret]

Please spare us your blinding idiocy, specious arguments and non sequitur comments.

Sorry comrade, there doesn't appear to be much support for your ignominious palaver.

 

[warlord19]

Oh, Comrade Gret, he has more support than you can imagine.
I be working fer my mastuh over 10 years now, still goin strong.
WL

 

[wacoflyr]

So, according to some, a union is always necessary. (sigh) I am afraid we shall just have to agree to disagree. I can assure you however, that in poor economic times a union will offer you no more protection from a cash-strapped company than I have. Broke is broke, and a contract cannot conjur money to pay a pilot when there is none.

 

[imacdog]

I know a company where company 401K contributions and no-premium medical plans were not touched due to a union contract. Non-union employees were not as lucky.

 

[RCR5]

I know a company where the union is not going to be able to stop another 300 pilots from losing their jobs. This is on top of the already 500 + that are on the streets. All due to a union contract.

Furloughed pilots were much luckier at a non union company that is now hiring them back.

 

[CA1900]

I know a company where the union is not going to be able to stop another 300 pilots from losing their jobs.

Maybe, maybe not.

This is on top of the already 500 + that are on the streets. All due to a union contract.

Based on what, exactly? We have been, and continue to be, staffed above the contractually-required number of pilots.

Furloughed pilots were much luckier at a non union company that is now hiring them back.

Since they were furloughed almost a year before their union counterparts, I'm not sure exactly how "lucky" I'd consider them.

 

[Praetorian]

So, according to some, a union is always necessary. (sigh) I am afraid we shall just have to agree to disagree. I can assure you however, that in poor economic times a union will offer you no more protection from a cash-strapped company than I have. Broke is broke, and a contract cannot conjur money to pay a pilot when there is none.

You are absolutely correct with this statement. A union cannot protect pilots from bad economic times, or the furloughs they necessitate. But what it can do is make sure everything is done correctly with the furlough and subsequent recall.

First, without a union and a contract there is no such thing as "a right to a furlough and recall." At-will pilots can and often have been fired outright. This gives management an opportunity to replace them with cheaper labor at a later date. Just ask the x/o jet guys.

Second without contract language that outlines how a furlough/recall will be handled you have no guarantee that you will be treated fairly. Will you be furloughed/recalled in seniority order? Will your pay change? What about the type of equipment you will fly when you are recalled. Will you have the right to defer a recall. How much time do you have to make a decision at the time of the recall. How many years are your recall rights good for? Will your company recall you at all, or will you be overlooked in favor of some senior managers brother in law?

These are all questions at-will pilots cannot answer definatively. You are simply at the mercy of, and must rely upon, the benevolence of your companies management. Again a parent/child relationship. Having had it both ways throughout my career at Flight Options, I can tell you I much prefer having things guaranteed in writing.

Waco, you might think you don't really need it in writing at Avantair and neither did I until our last CEO, Sh*tfinger, landed on the property (seemingly out of no ware) after a nefarious career at USAir express. Boy was I wrong. Don't make the same mistake we did.

 

[imacdog]

I know a company where the union is not going to be able to stop another 300 pilots from losing their jobs. This is on top of the already 500 + that are on the streets. All due to a union contract.

Furloughed pilots were much luckier at a non union company that is now hiring them back.

Unions do not magically save jobs, so I'm not sure why you would bring that up. What a union can do is provide a written, legally enforceable agreement between the company and a group of employees on predefined rules and conditions on how such an action can take place. Aside from the 401K, medical premiums, seniority-based furlough, and defined recall rights mentioned earlier, there has been no suspension of the pilot pay scale (like what happened at a non-union fractional), and pilots who did get furloughed due to company overstaffing were given two full months of full pay and benefits after their effective furlough date. This was something not offered to the non-union employee groups who faced the same reduction in force.

 

[RCR5]

Maybe, maybe not.



Based on what, exactly? We have been, and continue to be, staffed above the contractually-required number of pilots.



Since they were furloughed almost a year before their union counterparts, I'm not sure exactly how "lucky" I'd consider them.

Since most are forecasting that they will be out for close to 5 years; do the math. I suspect we will be hiring inside a year. Your union company will be hiring again, when?

300 more out the door......great union work. Regardless, I am sure those 500+ pilots are still loving the union.