HiSpeedFlyer
Terminal Baseball Junkie
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Union coming at Flexjet!
- Thread starter ArtVandalay
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B19 Flyer
....
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Still waiting for your response, sweetie.......uke:
Sorry for the delay getting back to you, I've been busy doing other things, and haven't logged in lately. I'll correct your ignorance now.
This has been discussed ad nauseum before on these boards. NJA had a higher pilot to airplane ratio than anybody in the fractional industry. As I remember, it was something like 6.1 per airframe compared to 4.3 in the rest of the industry. This equates to an additional 1.8 pilots per airframe than any other fractional in the industry.
This is driven by the contract, nothing more. If you knew ANYTHING about how to run a company, which is clear that you don't, you don't hire any more pilots than you need based on the financial requirements of the company which includes scheduling, training, duty time and benefits (vacation).
Every minute of reduction from FARS in the duty day costs the company more pilots, every additional training day costs more pilots. ANY limitation on when a pilot can operate an airplane via the work rules in the contract, costs more pilots. "Work rules" are what the financial driver is, not the wage. The wage however is driven up by the number of pilots necessary to fulfill the schedule. Ever dollar of wage is matched by taxes and benefits at most companies by around 60% or more. In other words, for every $1.00 of wage, the company has to dish out $1.60.
Manning models are driven by the contract sweetheart, and nothing more. There isn't a company on earth that is going to hire a single body more than it needs to.
No need to apologize, I accept your lack of understanding as you just being who you are.
ozpilot
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 558
6.1? Source?
I just ran the numbers that were current as of last Friday. The # of pilots at Netjets and the fleet size is confidential, but I can tell you it's way less than that.
Have you noticed how the union crazies spew vitriol in our direction, and we never reciprocate? Pretty funny. Many gold tie Union NJA guys have approached me on the road, warning me to avoid the union message board, telling me it is inhabited by lunatics. There are many who think as we do, but are afraid to say anything because of the thugs. And then they have the temerity to challenge us to use our real names. Thanks for your supporting post, warlord.
“Have you noticed how the union crazies spew vitriol in our direction, and we never reciprocate? Pretty funny. Many gold tie Union NJA guys have approached me on the road, warning me to avoid the union message board, telling me it is inhabited by lunatics. There are many who think as we do, but are afraid to say anything because of the thugs. And then they have the temerity to challenge us to use our real names. Thanks for your supporting post, warlord.”
G4Dude, if I worked at say, FlightOptions, I would be wholly in favor of a union if it is actually as bad a place to work as it APPEARS to be. But speaking in general terms, modern unions only look out for themselves and could care less about their affect on fairness and competitveness...it’s only “give me, give me, and give me more.” I hate repeating myself, but Bombardier is one of the best places to work in Canada, and, be extension, Flexjet a good place to work in the U.S. There are times when they work your butt off, but they pay me a good chunk of change to do it. And I’ll be the first to say there are a few things that need modifying/changing. The few cry-babies we have make most of the noise here on this board and, I’m sure, will start their moaning as soon as they read this. If enough of our pilots want a union, then it will come(along with an immediate 2.5%(?) decrease in GROSS WAGES). I guess a few of our really sharp morons are posting on the bathroom walls at TEB, but I wouldn’t expect anything less. They will try to bully and intimidate you G4, but stick to your beliefs, and I’ll do the same. Be careful out there.
WL
G4Dude, if I worked at say, FlightOptions, I would be wholly in favor of a union if it is actually as bad a place to work as it APPEARS to be. But speaking in general terms, modern unions only look out for themselves and could care less about their affect on fairness and competitveness...it’s only “give me, give me, and give me more.” I hate repeating myself, but Bombardier is one of the best places to work in Canada, and, be extension, Flexjet a good place to work in the U.S. There are times when they work your butt off, but they pay me a good chunk of change to do it. And I’ll be the first to say there are a few things that need modifying/changing. The few cry-babies we have make most of the noise here on this board and, I’m sure, will start their moaning as soon as they read this. If enough of our pilots want a union, then it will come(along with an immediate 2.5%(?) decrease in GROSS WAGES). I guess a few of our really sharp morons are posting on the bathroom walls at TEB, but I wouldn’t expect anything less. They will try to bully and intimidate you G4, but stick to your beliefs, and I’ll do the same. Be careful out there.
WL
Number of pilots before the lay-offs...3,200...number of planes in US fleet..504...produces a ratio of 6.35...after the lay-offs it drops to 5.35. Info is probably not as current/accurate as yours. This info is derived from published reports if you look for it, so it isn't that confidential.
Fleet numbers have not been adjusted for parked a/c (don't know how many) which would drive the ratio up.
ozpilot
Well-known member
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I think a better measuring tool is the number of hours flown fleet wide divided by the number of pilots. This levels the playing field company to company as one probably has a higher utilization rate than another.
I've seen one Part 91 a/c with 9 full time pilots and they were run hard and hung up wet. The a/c did over 1,000 hours with most of it international every week and there was no way it could operate with a "standard number of crewmembers". The owner never stopped, but had to be home every Friday night regardless.
I've seen one Part 91 a/c with 9 full time pilots and they were run hard and hung up wet. The a/c did over 1,000 hours with most of it international every week and there was no way it could operate with a "standard number of crewmembers". The owner never stopped, but had to be home every Friday night regardless.
gunfyter
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I'll correct your ignorance now.
500 non union, support people were let go. Why was the company carrying 500 people we didn't need? They had no union contract.
I know you will find some way to blame this on the union....
I have no idea what you wrote.
Why can't you just give up and acknowledge that differing opinions exist?
Our favorite experience at the former NJI is the Middle Finger Silent treatment from some of the gold tie guys on the road, which still happens.
I am not aware of this, can you give details? We don't get to CMH, so we miss out on the stories there.
be99fr8dog
Active member
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- Feb 14, 2002
- Posts
- 41
Our favorite experience at the former NJI is the Middle Finger Silent treatment from some of the gold tie guys on the road, which still happens.
Yup.. Still happens the other direction too.
jetmaster727
Old School
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gunfyter
Well-known member
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Haven't you heard? NJ is buying Flex.
Just kidding.... Point taken.
imacdog
Well-known member
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- Mar 12, 2005
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- 4,196
The company laid off non-union employees. How much simpler can we state this?
What is the point of noting this?
Thank you, I got it now. I agree, the union was not the only reason we were overstaffed, maybe not the primary reason. We were overstaffed because we had more business before the recession, we were staffing for more demand, that's all. I am a little slow, but friendly.
Captain Dork
Member
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- Jan 31, 2008
- Posts
- 21
Being a Teamster is OK
I think it is virtually certain you'll be joining us as a unionized workplace, as the majority of the transportation industry is so organized, for good reason. You really are just a machine that drives an airplane as far as the corporate ownership is concerned. If you are not in the family of the owner, consider yourself as important and interchangable as good tires.
It's a bit a conjecture, but I would say the vast majority of us have no regrets about bringing a union to FO. Yes our timing of the signing the contract was pretty unlucky, but there will likely be other contracts down the road. My personal paychecks are almost twenty-five percent larger than fifteen months ago, and I do have a much greater sense of well being working under a contractual agreement. The company seems to act more mature and I think this even plays well for our customers. We have recently recalled some previously laid off pilot employees.
B19's employment as your ownership's spokesperson was something we also enjoyed during our organization. Expect some other mythical characters to also show up. Keep in mind we destroyed the opposition at FO once the votes were counted. And keep in mind what does an anti-union blogger cost? You are probably out earning B by two or three times on a yearly basis. I think of a very fat man with a very expensive laptop (bizarre porn plays on the other pages).
The average union busting law firm can take on, and win, elections involving supermarket employees. However, I can't think of any pilot groups who have been so denied. Yes, it is all a political game to slow down your getting that first contract.
Good luck organizing your new local. It is both interesting and fun. Did I mention your pay goes up, and your working relationships improve?
And hello old NMC housemate!
I think it is virtually certain you'll be joining us as a unionized workplace, as the majority of the transportation industry is so organized, for good reason. You really are just a machine that drives an airplane as far as the corporate ownership is concerned. If you are not in the family of the owner, consider yourself as important and interchangable as good tires.
It's a bit a conjecture, but I would say the vast majority of us have no regrets about bringing a union to FO. Yes our timing of the signing the contract was pretty unlucky, but there will likely be other contracts down the road. My personal paychecks are almost twenty-five percent larger than fifteen months ago, and I do have a much greater sense of well being working under a contractual agreement. The company seems to act more mature and I think this even plays well for our customers. We have recently recalled some previously laid off pilot employees.
B19's employment as your ownership's spokesperson was something we also enjoyed during our organization. Expect some other mythical characters to also show up. Keep in mind we destroyed the opposition at FO once the votes were counted. And keep in mind what does an anti-union blogger cost? You are probably out earning B by two or three times on a yearly basis. I think of a very fat man with a very expensive laptop (bizarre porn plays on the other pages).
The average union busting law firm can take on, and win, elections involving supermarket employees. However, I can't think of any pilot groups who have been so denied. Yes, it is all a political game to slow down your getting that first contract.
Good luck organizing your new local. It is both interesting and fun. Did I mention your pay goes up, and your working relationships improve?
And hello old NMC housemate!
pers-headwall
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2006
- Posts
- 50
Thank you B-19. I too intend to work against a union at Flex. Particularily the Teamsters, which represent corruption, and politcal points of view that work against my best interest.
I am sure the silent majority will agree with me.
As a positive, maybe I can get a "waiver" from the unconstitutional Obama Care if I'm in a union. Nawww!....That's too high of a price to pay.
No Union while I'm at Flex!
pers-headwall
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2006
- Posts
- 50
I'm with ya' too G4 and Warloard.
Dooker
Well-known member
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- Apr 19, 2007
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- 344
And you can write that on the bathroom wall at Signature TEB!
wolfpackpilot
Diehard Republican
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2005
- Posts
- 899
And the thugs are about to get a taste of their own medicine....
Stand up and keep doing the right thing. When the times comes, your voice will be needed.
Wolf
you know my name.
DirtyBeech
The Last Starfighter
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2004
- Posts
- 782
And who's gonna fund it? There's a reason the teamsters were selected.
After NJA's experience with the Teamsters, which I thought everybody in the frac world knew about, it is amazing to hear of another pilot group signing on with them. They collected dues and did very little. Our guys and gals are much happier with our in-house union. As for funding, I am no expert on that, and would suggest asking NJA union types how they accomplished it.
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