Union coming at Flexjet!

[jonjuan]

You could have an industry leading contract like FLOPS after 4 years of turmoil.

Aren't they paid the worst and have the worst benefits compared to citationshares and fx with 0 union(retirement, health, etc) and have more furloughs?

 

[DirtyBeech]

What will be affected is our ability to compete, estrangement
from management, and inevetible decline as the "union mentality"
takes over the pilot group and we lose the need to give our customers
our best 'cause the union "has our back".

We've elected not to compete. We're happy being 2nd or 3rd best. The pilot group is already estranged from management. The only reason we're still afloat is that the pilot group has been giving it's best to cover for the Waterview's numerous shortcomings, and as yet it's gone largely unnoticed by our owners. There will be a tipping point if left unchecked. Suggesting that service will decline with a CBA is a reach. Is it possible? Yes. Is it probable on our current path without a union? Yes. Will there be some self satisfied individuals who'll rest on their laurels with a contract and mail it in? Yes. Let me suggest that we are in the customer service industry and that by treating your employees like owners instead of chits to moved around will that you will improve their happiness and service. Really, it's up to our us to elect good individuals to represent us fairly for both the company and the pilot group.

But every Flex pilot that
visits this board knows that the company treats them fairly and that
it's a great place to work

Wrong. Good people to work with generally. Hard company to work for usually.

 

[exagony]

Flexjet has been around for 15 years, and I've been with them for 10+
years. Bombardier(owner of Flexjet) has had unionized workers for
many decades, so if Flexjet votes a union in, it won't be that big a
deal. What will be affected is our ability to compete, estrangement
from management, and inevetible decline as the "union mentality"
takes over the pilot group and we lose the need to give our customers
our best 'cause the union "has our back". If there is a need for a
union at Flex, by all means vote one in. But every Flex pilot that
visits this board knows that the company treats them fairly and that
it's a great place to work(it's not perfect by any means..show me a business that is). And if you want to see what out-of-control unions have done to our children and competitiveness, just turn on your TV or visit your local public school.
WL

I see management has seen fit to put msgs on this board.... Company treats us fairly? Ask the 604 pilots who failed checkrides when they transitioned to the Lears.... Instructor with a chip on his shoulder because he wanted to fly a 604 - the pilots(who were hired into the 604) lost their jobs but the instructor still works here (albeit on the line). How about when someone writes msgs to chief pilots to point out things that are wrong or can improve the company's operation - they are called into the office for a meeting - never a pleasant one (do I sense "hostile working environment") How about a scheduling dept that goes out of its way to ensure you get home as late as possible on your last day... the old "we own you for 16 hours... funny how one can go out for a week and have early morning shows/not alot of flying all week until last day of rotation and then its 2 or 3 legs before airline home and 15-16 hour day. How about the creative "interpretation" of the FOM mgt likes to impose on us. Best yet - what about a chief pilot who openly says "if you don't like it - leave" when someone questions policies that the office comes up with out of the blue.... Yeah I guess you're right we don't need anyone looking out for our needs....

 

[jetwash]

Flexjet has been ........
WL

warlord19 = B19?

Has anyone noticed that warlord 19 just popped up on this board a short time ago and almost all his posts are anti-union.
It looks like Flex management has hired themselves a union busting law firm and the PR campaign has started.

 

[Helmsalee]

As a furloughed NJ pilot, I am disgusted the B19 thinks he can speak for me. HE DOES NOT!
Helm
BTW, he is on my ignore list, but some of you insist on quoting him.

 

[B19 Flyer]

As a furloughed NJ pilot, I am disgusted the B19 thinks he can speak for me. HE DOES NOT!
Helm
BTW, he is on my ignore list, but some of you insist on quoting him.

Any union that allows furloughs without opening the CBA first has sacrificed the lower seniority pilots for the higher seniority pilots in the name of keeping the high pay wages intact.

If you don't see that, you need to lay off the koolaide or see what they've spiked it with. Airline unions have been doing that for decades. I think AirTran saved jobs a few years back by opening the CBA and spreading the wealth. That's what a union is supposed to do, protect it's brotherhood. Your's didn't do that. You're union could have done the same thing.

The overhiring line? That's total BS. No company hires just for the sake of hiring. The manning model there was high because of the CBA, and when it went bad the 495 paid the price, pure and simple.

The union could have found ways to save a high pct. of those jobs but never once considered opening the contract in good faith.

While you're sitting at home with no paycheck, you can rest assured that the top third of the group is enjoying your sacrifice.

 

[B19 Flyer]

That's a great question. Let's ask it directly.

Hey, B19. Do you have a contract with your employer?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

I've answered this several times before.

No.

 

[B19 Flyer]

You could have an industry leading contract like FLOPS after 4 years of turmoil.

They got what they asked for.

 

[B19 Flyer]

B19 never fails to amaze.

That must mean I've extended your horizons.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Everybody needs to remember something about B-19 and the majority of all airline management,

They have contracts with their employers,

But he is against the employee having a contract

I don't have a contract, but there is a difference between contracts that are OFFERED to attract qualified people and those that are designed by BLACKMAIL to place a company in such of a financial situation that furloughs may be necessary to balance the books.

Had the CBA at NJA been opened the contract to protect a large pct. of their brotherhood maybe I would have had a different opinion.

That didn't happen thus my opinion stays the same.

As union membership dwindles, what will be the next excuses to come up? The State of Wisconsin and all the former NWA unions vanishing in ATL is going to be a trend for things to come. The more press out there, the more the general public gets to see the reality of damage done by unions.

 

[G4dude]

warlord19 = B19?

Has anyone noticed that warlord 19 just popped up on this board a short time ago and almost all his posts are anti-union.
It looks like Flex management has hired themselves a union busting law firm and the PR campaign has started.

I used to fly for Flex, enjoyed the time spent there, and I agree with warlord19 and B19. I'm just one pilot among many who would rather negotiate/relate with the company as an individual rather than be represented by a third party. With all due respect.

 

[B19 Flyer]

B19, we work in a industry ruled by unions, some people here agree with some of the things you post, myself included, but kind its of taboo to admit you have a point whenever it is you have a point, again due to the fact that our industry is heavely unionized ....

With that being said, let me ask you a question. What would you like to see or what would you like done If you were a Flex Jet pilot?? any advice for our Flex jet friends?

Union bashing is all you do. We know how you feel about unions, now how about suggesting something with substance that might help the Flex-jet guys?? You're like Sarah Palin, a lot of monday morning quarterbacking but not much else...

This isn't new, I've always said the same things. Bringing a new union onto the property brings with it years and years of turmoil, furloughs, one group pitting itself against another, rank and file employees have their careers destroyed or at the very least, deeply affected.

If you are a union pilot, go to a union carrier. While everybody likes to beat the drum about unity (gee, lots of that at FLOPS, eh?) there is always a small pct of pilots that want the union, drive the action and basically make it so the rest of the group almost needs to get on the wagon using mob mentalilty tactics.

If you are a union lover and you are working at a non-union company, shame on you. You should have gone to work for the union company in the first place. Going to a company and changing it for your own desires does nothing but hurt others in the group.

So that is my basic answer, and always has been. One last thing. If you don't want to leave because you don't want to wind up losing your seniority and taking a pay cut, it's unions that have created that situation. That alone should make you think twice before imposing your will on all those that don't want it. Don't go dragging innocent bystanders into your "cause."

 

[GooseHZ]

G4 .....That had to be in the top 10 of the most asinine statements I have ever wasted my time reading.

 

[warlord19]

G4, any post you or I make on this board will be met by, well, you can read the fabrications, half-truths, and plain lies that follow a post. It's why I don"t post here very often. When the pro-union BS just gets overwhelming is when I try to inject a little common sense and balancing viewpoint
WL

 

[imacdog]

Any union that allows furloughs without opening the CBA first has sacrificed the lower seniority pilots for the higher seniority pilots in the name of keeping the high pay wages intact.

The Union and Company negotiated a deal where pilots were paid less for less work (on a voluntary basis). The Company later made the decision to cancel that deal and furlough pilots. Sorry but your argument does not fly.

 

[imacdog]

That must mean I've extended your horizons.

This is true; I thought "stupid" only went so far.

 

[CA1900]

Any union that allows furloughs without opening the CBA first has sacrificed the lower seniority pilots...

The only contract provision the company has expressed any interest in renegotiating is the one that would result in more pilots being furloughed.

 

[gret]

Curious...if you got a union, would the contract be with Flex or the Part 135 operator (Bombardier doesn't own a US certificate)?

Put another way, do you work for Flex or the air carrier? Would that have any impact on one's decision?

 

[gret]

G4 .....That had to be in the top 10 of the most asinine statements I have ever wasted my time reading.

Are you implying that a man shouldn't have his own opinions or live his life the way he wants to because this may be contrary to your course? If so, then you have a problem.

 

[japhy]

Curious...if you got a union, would the contract be with Flex or the Part 135 operator (Bombardier doesn't own a US certificate)?

Put another way, do you work for Flex or the air carrier? Would that have any impact on one's decision?

I would guess Flexjet, since we are employed by them and only act as agents to Jet Solutions.

This is another interesting twist, we wouldn't be under the RLA act since we aren't employed by an air carrier, we'd be under the NLRA.

Anybody know of any major differences other than the strike issue?


"What is the RLA?

The Railway Labor Act was drafted by labor and management and passed by Congress in 1936 without amendment. It differs from the National Labor Relations Act passed in 1926 in that it prevents labor groups the ability to go on strike at will. The intent is to ensure that interstate commerce is not affected due to labor unrest. The RLA outlines the processes in which we bargain.

Why do we bargain under it?

An operator that possesses an Air Carrier Certificate dictates that governance under the auspices of the RLA."

from the 1108 website