Unhappy ExpressJet Pilots...

[paid4training]

Here's the Cliff's Notes version of what went down from a former XJT'er who was there when it happened:

Nevets is wrong when he said that we had a 10 year CPA in effect when SKYW first tried to buy XJT in 2008. Actually, our CPA with CAL was amendable in 2012.

What happened was a phone call from either St. George to Houston or Houston to St. George occurred. I believe it was the latter. Anyhow, said phone call was made to try to break CAL away from it's current contract with XJT. SKYW "negotiated" a rate at which they "said" they would be able to fly the XJT flying for CAL "if" they bought XJT. Of course this rate was based on many assumptions of what their cost of doing business was. SKYW made their offer on the contingency that XJT ALPA would give up their scope clause in their contract. (This is where it gets fishy) SKYW knew XJT ALPA would not give up scope, and therefore I don't believe the first attempt to purchase XJT was in any way genuine.

But, moving on. After SKYW offered to buy us and fly for CAL cheaper, CAL Management comes to XJT management and offers a three-option ultimatum. Option #1: Agree to be purchased by SKYW; Option #2) Agree to fly for the rates "offered" by SKYW if they had purchased XJT; or #3) Face systematic dismantlement when our CPA came due in 2012.

The scope deal was SKYW's escape clause. They knew XJT ALPA would never agree to giving up our scope. SKYW could have negotiated a rate at which they paid CAL for every flight they flew. It was NEVER a serious attempt to buy us. CAL called JA and said "let's make a deal". And to rub more salt in the wound, SKYW got a 5-plus million dollar parting gift from CAL for playing the game.

Anyhow XJT management, faced with the above ultimatum, agreed to be bent over and signed a "new" CPA with CAL agreeing to fly for the phony rates that SKYW said they would be able to fly for. And ever since then it has been trying to gain "cost savings" to try to get us profitable under the new rates that SKYW "negotiated" for us.

Nevets had it wrong when he said we had a rock solid 10 year CPA when SKYW "tried" to purchase XJT the first time. We had a rock-solid CPA until 2012. What XJT was facing was basically a threat to end the airline when 2012 came if we didn't agree to fly for the rates that SKYW "said" they would do the XJT flying for "if" they had made the purchase.

My belief is that the initial attempt to buy XJT was not serious and CAL used SKYW to break the CPA they had with XJT. Therefore yes, SKYW broke XJT and profited in the process to a tune of over $5 million. Now they bought XJT. You broke it, you fix it. You can't argue with the facts.

And we have a winner based on the facts as management would allow. I would like to add the orginal CPA had a renegotiating date where cal would be able to reduce capacity flying as the contract years proceeded. Skywest was part of XJT demise and was cals pawn in reducing cost. If everyone would recall Republic was the replacement for the first reduction of XJT flying. The existing CPA at the time would just allow CAL to let XJT wither on the vine.

CAL management doesn't care about the regional at all. Gordon Bethone even said in an interview reg airlines were a way for maj to reduce cost. Just an example, most xjt'ers will remember a lil old station in south Houston called Ellington field. It had one of the highest one pass elite passenger boarding rates of the entire system and had one of the highest station boarding totals. A few years back CAL and southwest did a switch and about 20 agents lost their jobs. A deal was made to close EFD if southwest would pull their one flight a day out of IAH so CAL would retain IAH sole base there.

Point being, we can sit around the Internet campfire and debate back and forth how a company did what to the other company and who's really to blame but in the end it doesn't matter. The guys in the suits are gonna make deals to send the other down the river without a life raft. I am a republican who believes business should be lazze fair (spelling police) but I am starting to see the others point of view as well. The folks wearing the suit aren't thinking about anything but the numbers and it hurts positive business practices for the folks turning the bolts, checking in the passengers and flying those passengers from a to b.


Just my opinion. In rethinking my previous post about the pilots retro pay, the pilot negotiated and Jim Reem agreed so it was what it was....

 

[www.]

Can anyone point out a HAPPY pilot group?

Anyone? Anyone?

Group? None. There are always going to be pilots unhappy and they, IMO, tend to focus on too small of an issue leave the big picture out of view. Most use an emotional reaction to problems or issues.

 

[cybourg10]

With ASA's new rates with Delta, do any of you believe that ASA pilots would have to vote in concessions if it was not for the XJT merger?

Count me as a happy XJT pilot, massive amount of upgrades next year! Thanks ASA.

 

[IBNAV8R]

Happy Skyw pilot - as are all (most) of those with whom I fly.

I have my gripes like everyone else but, I don't put up with that mopey "screw the company" crap.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Must be nice...management taking care of their brand...diverting newer planes to skyw...keeping them in clean working order. Every airplane I fly has some kind of mx problem and fungal growth. But hey, we have super activities like Aceypalooza, Surejet, and countless uniform surveys.

SkyWest...very adept at keeping morale low and expectaions even lower

 

[j3tdr1v3r]

I have my gripes like everyone else but, I don't put up with that mopey "screw the company" crap.

Neither do the majority of us (XJT). We, however, refuse to bend over and let the company screw us over carte blanche.
Many on here seem to take the refusal to do the latter as willingly doing the former... Couldn't be farther from the truth.
I, and anyone I have talked to, want the combined XJT to succeed better than any other. It's my, and my family's, livelihood. But, having it "succeed" on the backs of our contracts alone, while mgmt takes home record bonuses will no longer happen on our watch.
Fair contract, and we (legacy XJT) have proven that we will bust our tails to do whatever necessary (i.e. the extra work we put forth in cost savings, etc. to try to help branded work).
However... ******************** us over only to leave with the millions in bonuses our former "team" got and you're damn right we will lose the "team" attitude real quick.
We aren't asking for 200% pay increases with 20 days off (unless in jest). We only want a fair contract.
We're already took concessions only to watch a combined ~$24.5M walk out in bonuses, salaries,and severance pkgs. It won't happen again.

 

[dojetdriver]

Nevets is wrong when he said that we had a 10 year CPA in effect when SKYW first tried to buy XJT in 2008. Actually, our CPA with CAL was amendable in 2012.

Nevets had it wrong when he said we had a rock solid 10 year CPA when SKYW "tried" to purchase XJT the first time. We had a rock-solid CPA until 2012..

I think what Nevets meant to say was that we were under a 10 year CPA, 10 years from the IPO spinoff till 2012. So in 2008 it was 6 years into a 10 year deal. As far as the rates go. But of course, the language was STILL 25% of the flying could be pulled at the schedule contained in the CPA. Just like when announced in 2006, and taking effect in 2007

And to rub more salt in the wound, SKYW got a 5-plus million dollar parting gift from CAL for playing the game.

I thought it was 8 million? No matter, Jerry collected his "thanks for helping us punk ExpressJet" check.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Neither do the majority of us (XJT). We, however, refuse to bend over and let the company screw us over carte blanche.
Many on here seem to take the refusal to do the latter as willingly doing the former... Couldn't be farther from the truth.
I, and anyone I have talked to, want the combined XJT to succeed better than any other. It's my, and my family's, livelihood. But, having it "succeed" on the backs of our contracts alone, while mgmt takes home record bonuses will no longer happen on our watch.
Fair contract, and we (legacy XJT) have proven that we will bust our tails to do whatever necessary (i.e. the extra work we put forth in cost savings, etc. to try to help branded work).
However... ******************** us over only to leave with the millions in bonuses our former "team" got and you're damn right we will lose the "team" attitude real quick.
We aren't asking for 200% pay increases with 20 days off (unless in jest). We only want a fair contract.
We're already took concessions only to watch a combined ~$24.5M walk out in bonuses, salaries,and severance pkgs. It won't happen again.

How do we define "fair contract" and "bending over"? Based on pre-deregulation pay and workrules, this flying should probably pay at least 50 percent more than it does now...would that be "fair"?

Let me ask this question differently if you aren't comfortable with the previous analogy...Which regional currently gets paid more fairly and is getting less "bent over" right now?

Perspective is everything in any debate...

 

[79%N1]

I have two Captain friends at XJT that state their acceptable contract gains are 20% increases to pay. Now, assuming they both earn about $80/hr, a 20% increase takes you to $96/hr!!! C'mon guys, really!!! You may think that is what a 50 seat RJ captain should be worth........but, where in the marketplace is that amount paid?

 

[Texx]

I think what Nevets meant to say was that we were under a 10 year CPA, 10 years from the IPO spinoff till 2012. So in 2008 it was 6 years into a 10 year deal. As far as the rates go. But of course, the language was STILL 25% of the flying could be pulled at the schedule contained in the CPA. Just like when announced in 2006, and taking effect in 2007



I thought it was 8 million? No matter, Jerry collected his "thanks for helping us punk ExpressJet" check.

If you do some research it is not uncommon for a separation fee to be negotiated prior to doing a deal.

 

[CiFIknow]

Well riddle me this. If you had such an iron-clad cost-plus contract, for ten years to come, how could Jerry have whipsawed you/us? Then, to purchase XJT with that much time left on such a sweet, iron-clad contract, why would anyone in their right mind undercut themselves? Even if they bought it just to flip the shares, why not milk that sweet deal for 10 more contractual years. Just to screw over the pilots???

Admittedly, I haven't read the filings but something here just doesn't add up.

If you do some research it is not uncommon for a separation fee to be negotiated prior to doing a deal.

I understand the separation fee. Being that this deal was never serious in the first place makes the money paid to Skyw more of a reward than a separation fee.

 

[pilotkppsg]

I have two Captain friends at XJT that state their acceptable contract gains are 20% increases to pay. Now, assuming they both earn about $80/hr, a 20% increase takes you to $96/hr!!! C'mon guys, really!!! You may think that is what a 50 seat RJ captain should be worth........but, where in the marketplace is that amount paid?

Ok, what is acceptable to u, a 5-6% increase on a 2-3 year cba and bringing Asa up to our contact levels and call it a day?

 

[CFIT]

I have two Captain friends at XJT that state their acceptable contract gains are 20% increases to pay. Now, assuming they both earn about $80/hr, a 20% increase takes you to $96/hr!!! C'mon guys, really!!! You may think that is what a 50 seat RJ captain should be worth........but, where in the marketplace is that amount paid?

Skywest, RJ Captain 10 years of service.

Not sure about the 20% increase though.

Well, I am sure, not going to happen.........

 

[79%N1]

Skywest, RJ Captain 10 years of service.

Not sure about the 20% increase though.

Well, I am sure, not going to happen.........

Um, excuse me?

According to APC, a 10th year Skywest Captain earns $77/hr on the crj200 and $81/hr on the 700/900. It is not until year 18 on the 200 and year 16 on the 700/900 that a Skywest capt sees $96/hr. Again shows how ridiculous demanding 96/hr as a 9 or 10 year capt at XJT is.

 

[dojetdriver]

If you do some research it is not uncommon for a separation fee to be negotiated prior to doing a deal.

True, but it's probably safe to say that it was MORE than the 5-8 million dollars CAL payed SKW to squeeze XJT into a "cost neutral" (money losing) CPA.

Never mind that CAL couldn't afford to pay out the early termination penalty AND bring in another SJP to provide 200+ airplanes of regional lift.

 

[cbrown1]

Um, excuse me?

According to APC, a 10th year Skywest Captain earns $77/hr on the crj200 and $81/hr on the 700/900. It is not until year 18 on the 200 and year 16 on the 700/900 that a Skywest capt sees $96/hr. Again shows how ridiculous demanding 96/hr as a 9 or 10 year capt at XJT is.

Those pay rates are outdated. They even sperated the 700 and 900.

 

[79%N1]

Those pay rates are outdated. They even sperated the 700 and 900.

So, someone can confirm that tenth year crj200 pay at Skywest is $96 per hour? I find that very hard to believe, considering that is pretty close to topped out pay on the 700/900 at ASA!

 

[007]

I've said this before and say it again to all you "Market People". Let's cut the F/O's pay to ZERO, Captains max pay at 33,000 a year. No min days off. We should take over everything in no time and then what? The "Market" now takes that as the new normal. The "Market" will only support LOWER COSTS, at no point does it support higher costs. So the only way you're gonna get paid what you think you should be paid is when draw a line in the sand and say:" This much no less". Some of u realize this.

 

[princeton]

I have two Captain friends at XJT that state their acceptable contract gains are 20% increases to pay. Now, assuming they both earn about $80/hr, a 20% increase takes you to $96/hr!!! C'mon guys, really!!! You may think that is what a 50 seat RJ captain should be worth........but, where in the marketplace is that amount paid?

What are you talking about? Xjt already has 50-seat rates above that, so it just depends how long you've been there. Same deal with Eagle and even Skywest, it just goes to show that you've set your bar way too low.

 

[nerjdriver]

I have two Captain friends at XJT that state their acceptable contract gains are 20% increases to pay. Now, assuming they both earn about $80/hr, a 20% increase takes you to $96/hr!!! C'mon guys, really!!! You may think that is what a 50 seat RJ captain should be worth........but, where in the marketplace is that amount paid?

Well 14% of that is a raise....which we haven't had in years. The 6 % is the concession. You better jump on the bandwagon boss.....are you the guy that said XJT should take a $7 cut across the board?