Unfortunately CAL will lose it's 50 seat scope.

[Freedom]

Not a bad point there...

Here you go again......lot's of opinion, and no facts. Ever heard of retirements? The majors will have far more retirements than the newer upstarts. How many Jetblue pilots are scheduled to retire anytime soon? How about Virgin America? What about Airtran? That really isn't a senior "bunch." That means a bunch of middle aged guys enter the SWA list. That isn't good for movement. The Majors have tons of upcoming retirements.Ever seen the numbers? Over the next few years, up to 700 or more pilots leave PER YEAR, and that continues. Every guy that leaves there moves 20 or more people UPWARD. Same goes for UAL/CAL, AA, and USAir.

And where do you come up with the Majors having ONLY INTL flying? Give me a break. Oil is moving higher, and RJs are again becoming less and less attractive. And, scope clauses do work, and with more profits at the Majors, managements have less leverage to ask for concessions on anything, including scope. I think you need to re-read the part on negotiations and leverage. Sometimes you DON'T have to give up something to gain something else. When you are coming off of a BK contract, everything goes UP. When your closest neighbor (Airtran) gets a huge raise thanks to a SWA merger, that can only help DL's future negotiations. That new raise for Airtran will be the starting point for wage increases there. And guess what? I want to be a part of it. I have 3 internal recs, and I am hoping for an interview during this next round. I don't want to fly more domestic flying. I want to try something new.

And did you say more regional jobs? After the FAA imposes new hiring minimums? Won't that hurt Regional airlines, affecting how they hire? They may have to raise rates to attract anyone with enough hours to qualify. If they do that, then they will become less efficient, and that means they will likely downsize because their costs will go up. Then throw in the new rest and fatigue rule requirements, and that will do another number on regionals. Min rest hours at hotels will take away continuous duty overnights (a regional staple), and also duty day limits will shrink depending on how many legs you fly per day (another regional staple--lots of legs per day). That will make regional costs GO UP. They may want larger planes (100 seaters) to compensate, but mainline scope will stay strong because of the lack of leverage management has because of recent high profits. Sorry, you are mistaken.


And speeking of trying something new, how about you go look up some facts before you type. It sure would be nice.

You are correct, the Majors will have more retirements than the Discount Carriers. However, they will also have less total Pilots as they focus their efforts where the Money is: Long Haul with bigger airplanes, not competing against the Discount carriers.

Oh by the way, when you attempt to insult someone, how about at least getting your spelling correct (speeking is not a word, speaking is however, and I think that is what you meant).

 

[bluefin]

can't wait to see you parked in the unemployment line. Your job is gone. You're not getting sh!t. I hope you enjoy losing your home, your wife, everything you have worked for. Hopefully just in time for christmas. Wait...that's what happened to the united and cal furloughees. May it happen to you too, merry xmas!

For all the other pilots on this forum, this is just a special xmas wish for nerjdriver. May karma find him at the worst possible time and ruin his life. I hope to have the opportunity to spit in your face as you are laying homeless in the gutter cradling a bottle of 20/20 on xmas eve.

Ahhhhh, now that felt gooooood.

amen brother

 

[Yuppyguppy]

You are correct, the Majors will have more retirements than the Discount Carriers. However, they will also have less total Pilots as they focus their efforts where the Money is: Long Haul with bigger airplanes, not competing against the Discount carriers.

Oh by the way, when you attempt to insult someone, how about at least getting your spelling correct (speeking is not a word, speaking is however, and I think that is what you meant).

You are such an incompetent teenager. You absolute fool. You will get nothing and we will take it back from idiots like you. Do you really think UAL, DAL and AMR are going to shrink and do you really think the mainline pilots will let teens such as yourself continue to do our flying? Go put your head back in the sand.

 

[Heavy Set]

You are correct, the Majors will have more retirements than the Discount Carriers. However, they will also have less total Pilots as they focus their efforts where the Money is: Long Haul with bigger airplanes, not competing against the Discount carriers.

Oh by the way, when you attempt to insult someone, how about at least getting your spelling correct (speeking is not a word, speaking is however, and I think that is what you meant).

How do you fill up those bigger airplanes at the hubs? With RJs only? Places like ATL use 757s like RJs to fill up all of those international planes going far away. Everytime I fly into ATL I am amazed at how many 757s there are. Add MD88s, A320s, and 737s, and the place is a zoo, with medium and large planes. Then add RJs, and the place is crazy busy.

 

[johnsonrod]

You are correct, the Majors will have more retirements than the Discount Carriers. However, they will also have less total Pilots as they focus their efforts where the Money is: Long Haul with bigger airplanes, not competing against the Discount carriers.

Oh by the way, when you attempt to insult someone, how about at least getting your spelling correct (speeking is not a word, speaking is however, and I think that is what you meant).

Yes, you got me on a spelling error. I still disagree with you about the Majors giving all domestic feed to the regionals. The regionals are slowly being dismantled, and new FAA rules for hiring and rest/fatigue will cause even more problems for us. But, that may mean more hiring at the Majors to compensate for Regional inefficiencies, and I am all for that. Yes, the Majors will make a lot of money on the uptick of International flying, but they won't allow smaller planes to take the feed for their largest hubs. You somehow think that the Regional airlines have the ability to choose the flying we want. Nope, that is up to the Major itself, and that can be controlled by scope clauses, and they will be stricter when new contracts become enacted thanks to section 6 negotiations being worked on at almost every Major currently. I think Delta starts their negotiations soon, and the others are in negotiations now. The first one to watch is the UAL/CAL expedited arbitration that is due by the end of this month dealing with 70 seaters flying out of IAH. We all know the new UAL CEO is trying to get around the CAL scope clause, which is still valid since a new joint contract between UAL/CAL hasn't even been finalized, and they still have seperate certificates at this time. It should be fun to watch regardless. On my part, I just want out. Fingers crossed!

 

[V1rowt8]

Unfortunately until we,the pilots, are able to have some real leverage to negotiate and enforce our contracts it will be difficult to demand anything. Airline management,with the exception of a few, does not give a damn what the pilots think they should have. It is all about bottom line and will continue to do whatever they think they can get away with. If management thinks it is cost effective to use regional carriers for their domestic feed, that is what they will try to do and already are. Contract "negotiations" have not been negotiated in good faith by management for years!! Management has manipulated the RLA to their advantage dragging out negotiations as long as possible and we cannot do much to stop it, currently. Back on topic, I hope CAL/UAL pilots win the day but I have a bad feeling that they unfortunately have the cards stacked against them, as usual.

 

[BOX OFFICE]

What will affect the Majors the most, is what just took place at Southwest.

They use to just fly into outlying airports, then they started moving into the main hub airports, like Denver. Then they buy AirTran, who never did avoid the main airports, so now Southwest will be going head to head with even more Major Airline routes. Combine them with the JetBlue's of the world, and the Majors will simply be unable to compete with their cost structures in the domestic market. So where will they look to make money? International operations only. You will then have the larger Regionals doing more and more of the domestic work of the Majors, because the Majors will no longer be able to make money in the domestic market competing head to head with the Southwests of the world.

The end result: Less Mainline Pilot jobs, more Discount Carrier Pilot jobs and more Regional Pilot Jobs.

Its happening folks. No Union Contract provisions will stop it.

If one were starting out today, I'd say their best bet would be to try and get on one of the Southwests or JetBlue's of the world. Them, or one of the Larger Regionals.

The Majors are going to be reducing their overall Pilot population in the coming years, in my opinion. Scope clauses will not stop it. Its simple economics.

Has anyone noticed that SWA is about where Delta was in the early 80s and Delta is about where Pan Am was in the early 80s?

 

[SFR]

You guys worry too much about stuff that you can't control. I suggest canceling this account and just relaxing and bang chicks.

 

[Freedom]

I hope the CAL/UAL Pilots are successful, but....

What leverage will all the Major Pilot groups have over Scope, really?

The only legal leverage is a Strike, and I just don't think any Pilot group out there is going to Strike over Scope. Personally, I don't think Major Pilots will put it all on the line over Scope.

You can't get a Management group to agree to a Scope clause just because you want them too. It has to be worth it to them.

When you look at the cost advantages of flying around a 90-110 seat RJ, over flying a 737, Management is going to try to shift that flying, have no doubt.

In fact, even if the Arbitrator determines the CAL Scope clause is presently being violated, if the legal costs to continue violating it are less than the money saved by farming out their business to the Regionals, what do you think UAL/CAL Management will do?

The problem with us Pilots is we have an keen sense of Right and Wrong. Management does not; they just follow the Money.

If its more cost effective to fly in violation of the Scope, they will do it. The only way to stop them is by a Work action by the Mainline Pilots, in this case, the UAL/CAL Pilots.

And I personally don't believe the UAL/CAL Pilots have the stones to do anything about it.

I sincerely hope I am wrong. Because if the Mainline CAL Pilots let Management get away with this, it will be open season on the Scopes at all the Majors.

I truly believe the UAL/CAL Pilots (not the starving regional pilots) have the future of the industry in their hands.

Will they have the balls to stop this action by their Management, we will see. I hope you guys do.

 

[V1rowt8]

Well put freedom!!