UAL - shut down completely?

[RJAA]

I think Delta and NWA shed alot of jobs too....correct? About 4000? How is the alliance with CAL such a bad thing?

It's more like Continental joining STAR alliance which happens to have United in it. United is gaining almost nothing because it's not merging. It is bad because there is a likelyhood Continental positioned itself to gain at the expense of United. Furthermore, it's more important to note that Continental joining the alliance makes other strong partners more comfortable because now they have an insurance if United sinks even further below what they consider United as global partner representing North America. Just imagine in NRT with NWA/DAL and JAL/AA, then ANA without an alliance partner which they sign up for in STAR. At the same time, they (namely Lufthansa) gained access to NYC (Continental in EWR) and be able to compete with SkyTeam and DL/NW/AF/KL stuff for trans-atlantic. Gotta look at the big picture. It's a win-win for everybody except United.

 

[fullsail]

There is wishfull thinking and then there is reality. I'm sure Walmart wants Target to die. Yes, of course Delta wants United to die. I agree that if UAL starts a large selloff of it's int'l route structure that may guarantee your wish. Until then are you completely sure that the true financial situation at DAL is absolutely superior to UAL? Just last night didn't the UAL MEC Chairman say the UAL furlough numbers were a complete "overreaction" by the company? I remember some pretty bold talk from the Independance Air CEO a few years back regarding UAL as well.

 

[contrail67]

It's more like Continental joining STAR alliance which happens to have United in it. United is gaining almost nothing because it's not merging. It is bad because there is a likelyhood Continental positioned itself to gain at the expense of United. Furthermore, it's more important to note that Continental joining the alliance makes other strong partners more comfortable because now they have an insurance if United sinks even further below what they consider United as global partner representing North America. Just imagine in NRT with NWA/DAL and JAL/AA, then ANA without an alliance partner which they sign up for in STAR. At the same time, they (namely Lufthansa) gained access to NYC (Continental in EWR) and be able to compete with SkyTeam and DL/NW/AF/KL stuff for trans-atlantic. Gotta look at the big picture. It's a win-win for everybody except United.

So..United agreed to this knowing everyone was in a win win situation except United.....sounds like you have something personal against United. I don't buy your arguement...if you can even call it that.

 

[whatitdoing?]

Question for you UAL guys. Are your 777-2's ER's? I don't believe they are.

 

[Paul R. Smith]

I THINK the whole new alliance is a way for CAL to sell tickets on aircraft they don't/can't fly. Its just another way around scope. Thats what I think.


UAL going out all together...doubt it. Thats what I think.

 

[whatitdoing?]

There's no sense in arguing with a Delta pilot if Delta is ok financially. Remember, they get hired, then they're sent to some sort of reprogramming building where they come out speaking 'robot'. Delta's financial picture isn't great either. And if they think that this merger will be the cure, they're smoking crack. NW needed a dance partner and they got it. And if Delta guys don't think that a furlough is coming, well.....you speak 'robot' anyway.

 

[RJAA]

So..United agreed to this knowing everyone was in a win win situation except United.....sounds like you have something personal against United. I don't buy your arguement...if you can even call it that.

I am sorry I don't wish misfortune on anyone. But you have got to ask yourself. It is no secret United has a management team who are just not interested! For the past two years, every other words out of Tilton's mouth were merge! merge! merge! instead of polishing their very fine own operation with tremendous potential (more assets than Continental I might add) to turn to huge profit, instead of focusing on how to be more efficient, but just sitting around screwing around with Ted until the planes got old with no future orders. Pretty much everyone else considered United as a merger partner, and a couple of them very seriously and walked away. You have got to be kidding yourself if you don't believe that this was United's last resort to have Continental join STAR. United is like a girl who you would never ever marry but would love to be in bed. United was desperate to marry, but her time ran out.

 

[contrail67]

I am sorry I don't wish misfortune on anyone. But you have got to ask yourself. It is no secret United has a management team who are just not interested! For the past two years, every other words out of Tilton's mouth were merge! merge! merge! instead of polishing their very fine own operation with tremendous potential (more assets than Continental I might add) to turn to huge profit, instead of focusing on how to be more efficient, but just sitting around screwing around with Ted until the planes got old with no future orders. Pretty much everyone else considered United as a merger partner, and a couple of them very seriously and walked away. You have got to be kidding yourself if you don't believe that this was United's last resort to have Continental join STAR. United is like a girl who you would never ever marry but would love to be in bed. United was desperate to marry, but her time ran out.

....and maybe they realized through the "merger" talks that it will be better to merge AFTER cuts are made...it is cheaper to do it that way. I hope you do understand that United is not the only one cutting back. Almost every legacy is in some way. Obviously CAL did walk away from the merger from United but they still were talking...thus the alliance. In my opionion, if a merger is going to happen in the end...it is the smartest way to do it. United's time has not run out.

 

[RJAA]

Everybody is cutting back but it's a cold fact that the first legacy airline that sinks will save everybody else. I can tell you it won't be Delta. It probably won't be Continental. Why merge if you see in the books that it may not be saved in the current economics. The better alternative is to position itself closer and let the nature take it's course.

 

[AA767AV8TOR]

A major point you all are missing – Barack Obama, a democrat who resides in Chicago and a Illinois Senator, is not going to let UAL, a Chicago company and employing thousands, go Chapter 7, if he is elected.

It very well may be UAL’s ace-in-the-hole.

Now if McCain gets in, then all bets are off.

Good luck to all of us!!

AA767AV8TOR

 

[contrail67]

Everybody is cutting back but it's a cold fact that the first legacy airline that sinks will save everybody else. I can tell you it won't be Delta. It probably won't be Continental. Why merge if you see in the books that it may not be saved in the current economics. The better alternative is to position itself closer and let the nature take it's course.

you are correct...I hate to see any airline go out but I really don't think it will be UAL,DAL,AMR,CAL,or NWA. There are weaker ones....but you are right.

 

[Soverytired]

There's no sense in arguing with a Delta pilot if Delta is ok financially. Remember, they get hired, then they're sent to some sort of reprogramming building where they come out speaking 'robot'. Delta's financial picture isn't great either. And if they think that this merger will be the cure, they're smoking crack. NW needed a dance partner and they got it. And if Delta guys don't think that a furlough is coming, well.....you speak 'robot' anyway.

Heh. I think the correct term is "Deltoid" not, robot.

Let the "Deltoidinfication" begin . . . beep . . . beep.

 

[satpak77]

A major point you all are missing – Barack Obama, a democrat who resides in Chicago and a Illinois Senator, is not going to let UAL, a Chicago company and employing thousands, go Chapter 7, if he is elected.

It very well may be UAL’s ace-in-the-hole.

Now if McCain gets in, then all bets are off.

Good luck to all of us!!

AA767AV8TOR

What do you think Barack will do? Get out his personal ATM card and head to his personal bank and cover all the fuel costs and 777 leases?

Give me a break. The President can't "let" or "not let" an airline die if that is what the free market system has in store for it.

Tilton got how many zillions in stock options? His attitude from the ivory tower towards the line worker is how rosy?

That is what I thought. Tilton is the exact type of CEO that Barack has in his gunsites.

 

[AA767AV8TOR]

What do you think Barack will do? Get out his personal ATM card and head to his personal bank and cover all the fuel costs and 777 leases?

Watch him. It’s called using the “Tax Payers Money.” No way will a senator living in Chicago let his own hometown airline die if elected President.

Being a democrat, there will be tremendous pressure on him to either bailout or re-regulate the airlines.

It’s a different story with McCain.

AA767AV8TOR

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Watch him. It’s called using the “Tax Payers Money.” No way will a senator living in Chicago let his own hometown airline die if elected President.

Being a democrat, there will be tremendous pressure on him to either bailout or re-regulate the airlines.

It’s a different story with McCain.

AA767AV8TOR

First of all, if elected, Obama will only be the President...not the King. So any proposals he puts forth will have to be voted on by the Congress...Same goes for re-regulation. It ain't gonna happen just because Obama wants it to.

And if you think they will "rubber stamp" anything coming from Obama....look up the Clinton HealthCare plan and how they tried to get that through with a Democratic majority in the House and the SEnate.

Likewise, look and see how President Bush's proposal to overhaul Social Security went over....with a Republican majority in both the Senate and the House.

Additionally, a Senator from Chicago may not want to see his hometown airline go out of business, but he alone doesn't have the power to keep that from happening. Not doubt, he will get some "pushback" from the Texas delegation, who would like to see more of their constituents get recalled at AA....knowing that a UAL BK ( or worse) would result in increased service at ORD by AA....no way they would support a "bailout" for the Chicago hometown airline.

Remember, he's got to get a whole lot of Senators to go along with him...or it just won't happen.