UAL - shut down completely?

[satpak77]

Opinionate please. This is not a bash United thread, altho by appearances it looks like that.

Legit discussion. Will UAL be the first "legacy" to fall victim to these out of control oil prices, failing overall economy, etc?

Shut down soon? When?

 

[D-Bo]

Opinionate please. This is not a bash United thread, altho by appearances it looks like that.

Legit discussion. Will UAL be the first "legacy" to fall victim to these out of control oil prices, failing overall economy, etc?

Shut down soon? When?

They'd love for the employees to believe that.

 

[imisscorplife]

Sad that speculation in the market for oil is the major cause for all of this disruption. If the gov't can get some control over the trading of options/commodities that invlove oil futures it might stabilize things and lower the price of oil/gas big time! That what Im hoping for anyway!

 

[SoCentralRain]

Opinionate please. This is not a bash United thread, altho by appearances it looks like that.

Legit discussion. Will UAL be the first "legacy" to fall victim to these out of control oil prices, failing overall economy, etc?

Shut down soon? When?

If they begin selling off the "crown jewels" it's all over. Pan Am burned the furniture to keep themselves warm. No airline "shrinks to profitability."

IMO, it's setting up a perfect storm again. Oil, economy...yes--huge factors. But mismanagement by Tilton and the boys--specifically their callous attitude towards their employees in what we all know really is a service industry will play a huge part. Call it this: ego and avarice. Bastards.

SCR

 

[contrail67]

Kinda doubt that with the CAL announcement of the alliance...this is more in line of getting ready for a merger.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Sad that speculation in the market for oil is the major cause for all of this disruption. If the gov't can get some control over the trading of options/commodities that invlove oil futures it might stabilize things and lower the price of oil/gas big time! That what Im hoping for anyway!

"Speculators" include the folks that manage funds for retirement and 401K plans. They are joining everyone else in looking for a hedge against the falling dollar. If the dollar is not a stable measure of value, then maybe oil is the best substitute.

Whatever becomes the standard of value increases in value. We had the Gold standard, the dollar standard and currently the oil standard. We could commoditize door knobs and they would increase in value.

The "speculators" are merely the messenger. The message is that Bush's war and economic policies are pushing a structurally bankrupt currency over the edge.

If you shoot the messenger, another messenger is going to show up in another location. The solution is to fix the dollar by accepting the reality that we can't afford what we are doing.

 

[RJAA]

If it come to a point where United has to sell the crown jewels then it's likely they will fall in the hands of one of the partners to maintain the integrity of the alliance. I think Lufthansa is the main player in all of this, it's all about how Lufthansa wants a global network, that cannot be accomplished without a strong North American presence including New York, one of the largest market in the world where Delta and Skyteam continues to develop. Come on. Just think, Continental does not want to marry United but wants to be "really really" close. Something is up.

 

[Flybywire44]

I heard that United was thinking about selling their pacific routes? Is this true? I've not read this anywhere... maybe someone could confirm?

 

[JoeMerchant]

"Speculators" include the folks that manage funds for retirement and 401K plans. They are joining everyone else in looking for a hedge against the falling dollar. If the dollar is not a stable measure of value, then maybe oil is the best substitute.

Whatever becomes the standard of value increases in value. We had the Gold standard, the dollar standard and currently the oil standard. We could commoditize door knobs and they would increase in value.

The "speculators" are merely the messenger. The message is that Bush's war and economic policies are pushing a structurally bankrupt currency over the edge.

If you shoot the messenger, another messenger is going to show up in another location. The solution is to fix the dollar by accepting the reality that we can't afford what we are doing.

Well said Fins.....Ironically many pension plans....including some union pensions are heavily invested in oil....and making lots of money on the rise.

We saw this with tech stocks and real estate....many people now opposed to speculation took part in those speclative bubbles....

A stronger dollar and a real energy policy....INCLUDING MORE DRILLING...would pop this bubble....

 

[Draginass]

Continental is probably trying to position itself for the best spoils of a UAL failure.

 

[Max Powers]

Continental is probably trying to position itself for the best spoils of a UAL failure.

Them and everyone else

 

[D-Bo]

Them and everyone else

Folks have been saying that for 6 years now. Maybe they'll be right one of these days. Maybe not.

 

[bluefin]

Yes, no plan for the future. No aircraft orders in the future, no plans except shrink. Today the pieces of UAL are worth more than the whole. Tilton's loyalty is to himself and the share holders(how many are left?). The only way he can get a return for the share holders value is to sell off the pieces, which is the next step. Ual's days are numbered, everyone there is in a state of denial. Everyone needs to be looking for a new career, at UAL the party is over.

 

[bluefin]

Has it been this bad in the last 6 years? Yes, no plan for the future. No aircraft orders in the future, no plans except shrink. Today the pieces of UAL are worth more than the whole. Tilton's loyalty is to himself and the share holders(how many are left?). The only way he can get a return for the share holders value is to sell off the pieces, which is the next step. Ual's days are numbered, everyone there is in a state of denial. Everyone needs to be looking for a new career, at UAL the party is over.

 

[whatitdoing?]

CAL doesn't want anything to do with UAL.....period. They would of already merged if that was the case. They're just positioning themselves for a different alliance. If anything, CAL will be at the table to part out UAL with everyone else....

 

[climbhappy]

I think a shutdown is out of the question. Their int'l route structure is too strong.... they could sharply reduce domestic capacity and shed regional feed to the extent they aren't paying high fixed costs for half empty RJs.
I need one thing clarified ..Are Regional contracts still a fee per departure?

I think after the election we'll know alot more.

I think both candidates suck, would have preferred Rudy or Hillary. bill clinton could have a great Sec of state and he would have gotten the price of oil down.

But that said, after the election we'll know if the oil bubble will burst.....swift new policies against trading on oil futures will come

forget any Bush legislation moving through except for a housing bail out.. that is just election posturing.

otherwise, oil might hit 150 depending on who gets elected.

mcCain = 150.00 oil

Obama = 90 to 100 oil.

this opinion and a nickel will get you a handfull of the best horse$hit you have ever bought.

 

[Freight Dog]

The big difference between the post-9/11 crisis and this one is the current liquidity crisis. In other words, post-9/11, there was a line of institutions willing to lend money to distressed carriers while they were restructuring. That's not the case right now. No one is willing to lend money and take chances.

As much as I hate to think that UAL will shut down, I think it's a very likely possibility.

 

[brownie]

I think a shutdown is out of the question. Their int'l route structure is too strong.... they could sharply reduce domestic capacity and shed regional feed to the extent they aren't paying high fixed costs for half empty RJs.
I need one thing clarified ..Are Regional contracts still a fee per departure?

I think after the election we'll know alot more.

I think both candidates suck, would have preferred Rudy or Hillary. bill clinton could have a great Sec of state and he would have gotten the price of oil down.

But that said, after the election we'll know if the oil bubble will burst.....swift new policies against trading on oil futures will come

forget any Bush legislation moving through except for a housing bail out.. that is just election posturing.

otherwise, oil might hit 150 depending on who gets elected.

mcCain = 150.00 oil

Obama = 90 to 100 oil.

this opinion and a nickel will get you a handfull of the best horse$hit you have ever bought.

Actualy mccain = 400 oil obama = 250
the reason. bush still have another 7 months in office and difinetly another war in him and this one is gonna be BIG and LONG.

 

[CALDC9]

CAL doesn't want anything to do with UAL.....period. They would of already merged if that was the case. They're just positioning themselves for a different alliance. If anything, CAL will be at the table to part out UAL with everyone else....

Who are the strongest partners in the Star alliance?

Can you say Lufthansa & Singapore

 

[contrail67]

CAL doesn't want anything to do with UAL.....period. They would of already merged if that was the case. They're just positioning themselves for a different alliance. If anything, CAL will be at the table to part out UAL with everyone else....

It is cheaper to cut before a merger dude. Don't be surprised if they merge after the cuts...I do believe CAL is cutting too....as most Legacy airlines are. If CAL did not want anything to do with UAL then then would not enter an alliance. They do realize that if they do not join a structured alliance they may not be at the table....just how it goes.

 

[D-Bo]

Ual's days are numbered, everyone there is in a state of denial. Everyone needs to be looking for a new career, at UAL the party is over.

LOL. What party and what denial? WTF are you talking about?

 

[contrail67]

Has it been this bad in the last 6 years? Yes, no plan for the future. No aircraft orders in the future, no plans except shrink. Today the pieces of UAL are worth more than the whole. Tilton's loyalty is to himself and the share holders(how many are left?). The only way he can get a return for the share holders value is to sell off the pieces, which is the next step. Ual's days are numbered, everyone there is in a state of denial. Everyone needs to be looking for a new career, at UAL the party is over.

Please post something intelligent...UAL's days numbered?......did you get turned down?..or did you even get the interview?

 

[Soverytired]

Actualy mccain = 400 oil obama = 250
the reason. bush still have another 7 months in office and difinetly another war in him and this one is gonna be BIG and LONG.

Uh, yeah. I can definitely see a democratic congress lining up to back another major war right before a major election that they currently can't lose.

They may have repeatedly and steadfastly backed the current one, but I don't see them throwing away their majority over another one. No way, no how.

Moving on (.org) . . . I think Mike Boyd's most recent rant stated an obvious truth (as MB is wont to do) . . . airlines in the US are contracting PERMANENTLY in response to permanent fuel increases.

Going to suck for the legacies. Going to REALLY suck for the so called "regionals".

 

[brownie]

Uh, yeah. I can definitely see a democratic congress lining up to back another major war right before a major election that they currently can't lose.

They may have repeatedly and steadfastly backed the current one, but I don't see them throwing away their majority over another one. No way, no how.

Moving on (.org) . . . I think Mike Boyd's most recent rant stated an obvious truth (as MB is wont to do) . . . airlines in the US are contracting PERMANENTLY in response to permanent fuel increases.

Going to suck for the legacies. Going to REALLY suck for the so called "regionals".

Well america doesn't necceralliy have to start this one however they're commited to back the party that starts it and that's how you get pulled in to a mess.

 

[Soverytired]

Well america doesn't necceralliy have to start this one however they're commited to back the party that starts it and that's how you get pulled in to a mess.

Oh, I see.

The majority parties in both the House and Senate have no ability to start or stop a war, even though the Constitution specifically delegates that power to them and them alone. Or maybe they just backed it because they're gutless cowards who are afraid to take a political risk?

Otherwise we have an elected dictator who is unanswerable to anyone. (not).

 

[bluefin]

LOL. What party and what denial? WTF are you talking about?

That there is a UNITED to hold on to. Look at what is going on, the company is shrinking around them, the union has no balls. The senior pilots are willing to throw the junior, previously furloughed brothers to the wolves. That place is F%&*&^ up.

 

[eaglesview]

That there is a UNITED to hold on to. Look at what is going on, the company is shrinking around them, the union has no balls. The senior pilots are willing to throw the junior, previously furloughed brothers to the wolves. That place is F%&*&^ up.

Please explain to me how the senior pilots have thrown the junior pilots to the wolves.

 

[Peanut gallery]

Get Real

Kinda doubt that with the CAL announcement of the alliance...this is more in line of getting ready for a merger.

This is the beginning of the transfer of flying, we are weeks away from the end of the game.

 

[contrail67]

This is the beginning of the transfer of flying, we are weeks away from the end of the game.

Been hearing that for about 7 years.

 

[Peanut gallery]

Start looking for your next gig

Been hearing that for about 7 years.

We are hitting trigger points faster than anticipated. the big boys will preserve enough cash for the preset exit strategy. I wish I only had seven years tied to this sinking ship.

I have a friend that got tossed out there in the job market about two months ago, and I will tell you it is not pretty. If you are not a Captain, the job market internationally is very thin. Domestically get ready for a Comair right seat. The Corporates and 135 boys have had enough of 121 guys for awhile.