UAL Rumor

[XR650R]

XR,

I'm headed to dinner in a few mins on my 2009 XR650L. Loads of fun.

T

I wish my "R" could be plated. It would make it the ultimate DS.

 

[taxi1wire]

XR,

I'm headed to dinner in a few mins on my 2009 XR650L. Loads of fun.

T

Sounds like the XR's are the equivalent of the old XL series, is that right? I had a 1978 XL 250 and raced a 1979 XR 250R. Great machines you could thrash around still keep running.

 

[Mr.B]

I have no idea how much truth there is to this.

"Also according to Washington insider law firms, United has retained bankruptcy counsel. (Again) Thoughts are that it will be a Chapter 7 filing possibly as early as late 2009 or early 2010, with most assets going to STAR Alliance partners in such a fashion so as to avoid disruption of the Mileage Plus program (and others), the financial integrity of the STAR Alliance, and allow for transfer of other assets (aircraft, etc.) in such a fashion so as to avoid union “involvement” or interference. United owns very little at this point so it would merely involve termination of leases which is easy in either Chapter 11 or 7. Such transfers could involve number levels below “fragmentation policy” triggers (20%?), and would be done so as to transfer zero or an absolute minimum number (if any) of aircraft related pilots to the surviving airlines. Transfers could also be made to other entities such as the proposed IAD to Madrid outsourced airline. Any such transfers would be made on a seat by seat process as opposed to sen iority with either United or USAir. Neither airline has airplanes that are deemed valuable. Other non-pilot transfers would also be held to a minimum. There probably would be no “merger” in a traditional airline sense. The administration and the “loyal opposition” seem to have accepted that either United, USAir, or both are not survivable entities. Interestingly enough, American is considered to be the next worse off airline. If American were to file Chapter 11, AND attempt to dump its pensions on the PBGC, the PBGC believes that it can go back 5 years and reclaim those pensions paid out to pilots. Highly speculative thoughts, however interesting. These ideas have come from sources that are currently associated with the two carriers in one form or another and admit that their thoughts are “speculative” in nature. Changes to these concepts would change as the political realities come to a head.

Delta Bravo.

 

[Paul R. Smith]

If I had a nickel....
:smash:

 

[AA717driver]

Sounds like the XR's are the equivalent of the old XL series, is that right? I had a 1978 XL 250 and raced a 1979 XR 250R. Great machines you could thrash around still keep running.

What are you guys talking about? I thought a XR650 was (another) Citation model...


TC

 

[20sx]

After reading the ALPA letter to United pilots a month ago or so describing the coming $ crunch there....it's very believable. As we head into the winter months, and with maybe a billion left in shtuf to use as equity, it could get ugly there very fast.

Plan for the worst and hope for the best.

 

[ualdriver]

Well, that's 1.1B in equity and then probably another 1.5b-ish in cash we'd have to burn through before Chapter 11 or 7. That 1.1B in equity probably isn't worth 1.1B, but it's also not spare parts quality from what I understand either, so it's probably worth at least several hundred million I would bet. But for one to believe that our demise is imminent, you'd have to believe that the cash burn rate for the third (normally strongest) quarter is going to remain the same as the first two, that the cuts being made will do nothing to change the rate of cash burn (we're eliminating a fleet before the end of the year unfortunately), and that there will be absolutely no recovery in the up and coming quarters. Certainly possible, but unlikely.

I'm certainly no fan of UAL despite my screen name, but I'm not so sure we're in imminent danger of being unemployed..........yet.

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

If they don't make it on their own United Airlines who is the largest union employeer in the state of Illinois will be declared "too big to fail" and will become owned by the US taxpayer.

 

[funnyman12]

I've heard it is the credit card companies that could force UAL into Chapter 11. If they can't re-negotiate some terms with the credit card companies, I think it is nearly impossible for UAL to not file Chapter 11 this winter. I'm just a dumb pilot though.

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

I've heard it is the credit card companies that could force UAL into Chapter 11. If they can't re-negotiate some terms with the credit card companies, I think it is nearly impossible for UAL to not file Chapter 11 this winter. I'm just a dumb pilot though.

At which point they will be deemed too big to fail and owned by the taxpayers.