UAL MEC tough stance on Scope---keep it up!

[dicko]

uke:

This is easily the dumbest thing I've seen posted here in some time. Unity through division? Success through segregation? Good luck with that. If we are ever going to rebuild this profession, we need to stick together, not break everybody apart. It is possible for FFD pilots and mainline pilots to work together, but you need to check your ego at the door, and people like Joey need to check their inferiority complexes at the door.

Ladies and Gentleman,

I would like to introduce you to the guy who was instrumental in bringing out sourced 86 seat RJ's to AirTran.

 

[Hvy]

Go for it...but don't ask me for support....

I've made a good living out of flying the big boys were too good to fly...Expect a fight, not support, to try and take it back....

There's not a thing that you can do about it. They are not your routes. They are United routes. You fly them because United has hired your company. Not because you "own" anything. As such, you will have NO say about it. NONE. When the contract with your company is over the routes can and WILL be taken away and flown by United pilots. Your flying will dwindle. Good luck to you.

 

[Hvy]

I wish the Delta pilots pushing to pull from ALPA luck. Some of the comments here from out "carreer" regional pilots clearly show why we should not be in the same union paying dues to support their "carreer." I hope UAL is right behind them to dump ALPA.

I agree 100%. Outside of the realm of safety, anything that is good for an RJ outfit is bad for the Majors.

 

[AWACoff]

Fact is, if mainline is able to get scope back and the regionals start losing jobs I think ALPA regional pilots should have a stake in the new world order.... In fact I suggested 3:1 ratio of seniority to longevity... If a regional lifer has 15 years then he gets no seniority but 5 years of longevity. Should make the economic pain minimal... he will have to deal with the ego blow of being an FO all over again....




?

I'd like to suggest that you stop proposing free handouts for regional pilots. I suggest that if you don't want to end up in the unemployment line, apply/interview/get hired at a major just like the rest of us. I suggest you take the extreme paycut that we all took when we left the regionals/military/etc. instead of hoping for "ratios". Fact is, when the majors get scope back and the regionals start losing jobs, there will be MORE jobs at mainline for those regional pilots.

 

[eaglesview]

I'd like to suggest that you stop proposing free handouts for regional pilots. I suggest that if you don't want to end up in the unemployment line, apply/interview/get hired at a major just like the rest of us. I suggest you take the extreme paycut that we all took when we left the regionals/military/etc. instead of hoping for "ratios". Fact is, when the majors get scope back and the regionals start losing jobs, there will be MORE jobs at mainline for those regional pilots.

THank toy for that breath of common sense.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I'd like to suggest that you stop proposing free handouts for regional pilots. I suggest that if you don't want to end up in the unemployment line, apply/interview/get hired at a major just like the rest of us. I suggest you take the extreme paycut that we all took when we left the regionals/military/etc. instead of hoping for "ratios". Fact is, when the majors get scope back and the regionals start losing jobs, there will be MORE jobs at mainline for those regional pilots.

Tough sell....

So if a guy that loses a job because ML takes scope back, he should just be left out to dry? Recall ML pilots gave up the flying for regional pilots to fly. Most regional pilots want to be mainline pilots but are forced to pay their dues at the express carriers....

Not sure why a longevity ratio hurts you... or is it just pride that a regional pilot gets a preferential interview, maybe he passes the interview, maybe he doesn't.. if he does, he gets a new hire seniority number. He'll never be senior to any pilot currently on the ML sen list...

What do you care what the company pays him? Besides, he has flown the paint around for 15 years.....

So how are you harmed?

 

[DontFeedTheBear]

Tough sell....

So if a guy that loses a job because ML takes scope back, he should just be left out to dry? Recall ML pilots gave up the flying for regional pilots to fly. Most regional pilots want to be mainline pilots but are forced to pay their dues at the express carriers....

Not sure why a longevity ratio hurts you... or is it just pride that a regional pilot gets a preferential interview, maybe he passes the interview, maybe he doesn't.. if he does, he gets a new hire seniority number. He'll never be senior to any pilot currently on the ML sen list...

What do you care what the company pays him? Besides, he has flown the paint around for 15 years.....

So how are you harmed?

WADR, how do you then deal with the military guys. They are leaving a higher paying commander position to come to mainline and take a huge paycut. They have been flying OUR COLORS for years, and risking lives for every American???

Yogi

 

[Hvy]

Tough sell....

So if a guy that loses a job because ML takes scope back, he should just be left out to dry? Recall ML pilots gave up the flying for regional pilots to fly. Most regional pilots want to be mainline pilots but are forced to pay their dues at the express carriers....

What about the Mainline guys that lost their jobs because of the outsourcing? Perhaps the RJ guys should supplement the furloughed pilots incomes?

Not sure why a longevity ratio hurts you... or is it just pride that a regional pilot gets a preferential interview, maybe he passes the interview, maybe he doesn't.. if he does, he gets a new hire seniority number. He'll never be senior to any pilot currently on the ML sen list...

You seem to lack understanding on how contract negotiations work. If we were to do something like you propose it would not be free.

What do you care what the company pays him? Besides, he has flown the paint around for 15 years.....

See above

So how are you harmed?

They are NOT employees at United Airlines. They are a wholly owned subsidiary. Maybe we should set them up with a car & condo at the domicile of their choice. I can see that the entitlement generation has arrived in the airline industry.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

So if a guy that loses a job because ML takes scope back, he should just be left out to dry? Recall ML pilots gave up the flying for regional pilots to fly. Most regional pilots want to be mainline pilots but are forced to pay their dues at the express carriers....

What about the Mainline guys that lost their jobs because of the outsourcing? Perhaps the RJ guys should supplement the furloughed pilots incomes?

Recall, the ML guys agreed to give up scope for other protections. A choice. In fact, the UAL guys in the glorious C2000, gave up scope for mouth watering pay rates. Most agree that was a mistake...

As I stated above.. Regional pilots have no choice.. they have to take the RJ route to be qualified to apply to ML..... as did most ML pilots since the late 80s.

Not sure why a longevity ratio hurts you... or is it just pride that a regional pilot gets a preferential interview, maybe he passes the interview, maybe he doesn't.. if he does, he gets a new hire seniority number. He'll never be senior to any pilot currently on the ML sen list...

You seem to lack understanding on how contract negotiations work. If we were to do something like you propose it would not be free.

It depends on who is paying for it..... I propose it is in the companies best interest to pay for it... We are already learning the lesson of ML outsourcing as country...

What do you care what the company pays him? Besides, he has flown the paint around for 15 years.....

See above

So how are you harmed?


They are NOT employees at United Airlines. They are a wholly owned subsidiary. Maybe we should set them up with a car & condo at the domicile of their choice. I can see that the entitlement generation has arrived in the airline industry.

They may not be UAL employees but they are ALPA members. That is a good enough reason to provide pay protections so these regional pilots who will be kicked out on to the street can continue to feed and house their families...

Also, the longevity ratio scheme should start with the junior regional pilots first..., because s/he won't have much of a ratio. Less than 5 years at a regional has no longevity ratio value. (all this is just an idea...) Only when a regional pilot gets his pink slip does the ratio become valid. If a 15 year regional captain wants to quit and interview like everyone else then he gets no longevity credit. This is to give the junior regional pilots a chance to get some seniority over the senior regional pilots when they come over to ML... if they can pass the interview...


It is disappointing that you did not answer the question..... How are you or a ML pilot harmed when ML seniorty is protected?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

WADR, how do you then deal with the military guys. They are leaving a higher paying commander position to come to mainline and take a huge paycut. They have been flying OUR COLORS for years, and risking lives for every American???

Yogi

Not sure how that correlates?

How does choosing to leave the DoD equate to a regional pilot being forced out of a job because of scope reversal?

Recall the regional pilots are ALPA members as are the ML pilots....

I would expect that if a ML pilot group took back their scope, which they should, but it caused the unemployment of many fellow ALPA members that some method of protection could be put in place.

The longevity ratio protects the seniority of current ML pilots while acknowledging a regional pilots service to the brand.