UAL MEC tough stance on Scope---keep it up!

[Homer Jay]

Hi Joe -

Captain Wendy's insensitive slurs are all moot. Even in good economic times, the mainliners simply cannot afford to buy that flying back (at Delta, for example, it's @ 50% of all domestic flying). Not even over the next 5 contracts is that going to happen. In order for the mainline to keep what they've already got in their agreements, the affiliate carriers will soon be flying 100 seaters. That's the bed the mainliners have made.

As we've discussed before, there was a brief window of opportunity to fix this in 2000 when Delta and Comair were both in Section 6 but the Delta/Comair/ASA merger petition was characterized as a "seniority grab" and the rest is history.

Ironic, no? The ALPA mainliners got what they wanted in 2000 and now they're screaming the loudest about it.

You are smoking crack if you think a 100 seat jet will EVER show up on a regional airline's property!

 

[Secret Squirrel]

The Airtran MEC just negotiated a 86 seat scope with management. And I fly with a number of guys who don't seem to care. We have the greatest example of what outsourcing can do to a company right in our back yard (DELTA) and some guys here at the tranny have blinders on when they are taxiing by them every day. A very similar contract between Republic and Frontier led to Frontier being owned by Republic. Yet we are willing to go down that very same road. We could get Southwest rates and I will be a no vote on this contract.

 

[Jetjockey]

Hey Joe, the reality is you have NO say. You fly for an outsource provider. You can only control what you have within your company. It's the scope clause in the UAL piot contract that allows your airline, and your job to exist. You sir are along for the ride. WHEN the UAL JCBA changes, and scope is more restrictive, you will fly what is allowed by the United pilot's contract.

No one needs your approval or support. That's the harsh reality of being a pilot for an outsource provider. Your direct future is dictated by another company, and contract that is out of your control.

 

[Jetjockey]

The Airtran MEC just negotiated a 86 seat scope with management. And I fly with a number of guys who don't seem to care. We have the greatest example of what outsourcing can do to a company right in our back yard (DELTA) and some guys here at the tranny have blinders on when they are taxiing by them every day. A very similar contract between Republic and Frontier led to Frontier being owned by Republic. Yet we are willing to go down that very same road. We could get Southwest rates and I will be a no vote on this contract.

Republic is going to have to put all those EMB-170s somewhere when they are booted out of the UAL system.

 

[Kugelblitz]

What are people like Merchant going to do, sue ALPA? And for what? That UAL's business plan doesn't call for ATR's? (If he flew for a UAL subsidiary, as it stands he apparently flies for a DAL subsidiary_ASA_ oops, I mean Skywest.)

That anyone would want to fly a 100 seater for around $4000 less a month than they would for a mainline carrier is beyond me (and that is assuming they make $100K a year to start with, a big assumption). There is obviously more going on here than these guys "choosing" to fly for less.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Yuppyidiot....Most of us are well past our teens. Wendy and the rest of you are picking a fight you don't want to pick. ASA didn't land on taxiway Mike. ASA didn't fly 150 miles past MSP.

Wendy's comments here:

What Ms. Stevens failed to mention in her letter to the passenger is that United Airlines, when booking an unwitting passenger on a United Express flight, is misleading the very loyal and trusting customers who expect to be flown to their destinations by an industry-leading professional crew flown by United pilots on a United mainline aircraft.

These comments are out of line. UAX pilots are just as "industry-leading professional crews"...United doesn't really want to pick this fight considering their hiring practices of the past. The damn near took out Mt. Bruno with a 747 with an engine failure.

ALPA still doesn't get it...They keep picking fights within their own ranks...I don't think there is any hope for ALPA....

Joe Dirtchant:
No, they didn't land on a taxiway or fly past MSP. They (regional pilots) killed 50 people taking off on the wrong runway in LEX, they, killed even more innocent people in BUF when not adding power when extending flaps and gear in a turbo prop airplane.
When you bought your job at ASA, you were setting a precedence that it didn't matter what kind of qualifications you had, just as long as you were dumb enough to pay for that pathetic job you have. Then of course in true Joe Merchant fashion, tried to sue what you couldn't get through the interview process.

 

[Ad Lib]

The Airtran MEC just negotiated a 86 seat scope with management.

WHAT!

That is disastrous. Forget Delta's example. You need to be thinking what happened with MidWest.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Hi Joe -

Captain Wendy's insensitive slurs are all moot. Even in good economic times, the mainliners simply cannot afford to buy that flying back (at Delta, for example, it's @ 50% of all domestic flying). Not even over the next 5 contracts is that going to happen. In order for the mainline to keep what they've already got in their agreements, the affiliate carriers will soon be flying 100 seaters. That's the bed the mainliners have made.

As we've discussed before, there was a brief window of opportunity to fix this in 2000 when Delta and Comair were both in Section 6 but the Delta/Comair/ASA merger petition was characterized as a "seniority grab" and the rest is history.

Ironic, no? The ALPA mainliners got what they wanted in 2000 and now they're screaming the loudest about it.

Hi poindexter:
Perhaps instead of masturbating joemerchant, you, as a comair pilot should be busy filling out job applications.

 

[IBNAV8R]

A very similar contract between Republic and Frontier led to Frontier being owned by Republic. Yet we are willing to go down that very same road. We could get Southwest rates and I will be a no vote on this contract.

Just curious how you figure this. Yes, Republic flew for frontier - briefly. Later on, F9 was in bankruptcy and RP had the cash. The two are coincidental.

Back on topic: The fact is, like it or not, RJs will continue to fly certain routes until it makes economic sense to put a mainline aircraft on them. Now, I don't pretend to understand the logic of pulling out oversold 757s and replacing them with RJs (with a higher CASM). But, RJs are the RIGHT size for many markets. That part will never change.

If RJs (and their pilots) are cut out of CPA/code-share contracts, as some would seem to suggest, what WILL change is that mainline and regionals will go from a complimentary relationship to direct competition. Regional airlines are not willingly going to go down while a BK judge cleans the last of their coffers for lease payments on 1000s of RJs parked in the desert. Nor, are thousands of pilots going to flip hamburgers or wear a Wal-Mart vest while they wait for an interview to the promise-land of the almighty mainline. And, in an ironic twist, some regionals now have the cash for a prolonged market-share battle. Whereas, most majors don't.

 

[Ad Lib]

We could get Southwest rates and I will be a no vote on this contract.

Excellent! Talk 51% into voting with you. :beer: