UAL MEC (daddy) has to warn pilots (children) to stop denying j.s. to jetblue pilots

[Ty Webb]

That's because you're the source of all NWA'a problems .

It's really funny that an airline with such a militant union has swallowed that bunch of garbage, which essentially lets their management off the hook.

No, it's not that they took a gamble and decided to keep 30 year-old gas-guzzlers on the property, a failure to hedge, 9-11, or lousy revenues with the other legacy carriers not willing to match fare increases.

No, it's those bad ol' LCC that are to blame, and their pilots.

GMAFB.

 

[Andy]

MSP to LGA, A319. Was given the jumpseat only to have the Captain approach me minutes later saying he was going to block one jumpseat off and put one of their own positive space deadheading crewmembers up there to free up a seat for a paying passenger. He said "better luck on the next one". I watched the aircraft push back with empty jumpseats, then made it to NY 8 hours later and after the departure time for my original trip. Gratefully we work for a company that is easy to work with when this happens.

So you weren't denied the jumpseat; you were bumped off of it by a NWA employee. You were initially given the jumpseat, but the NWA employee has a higher priority.
While you may disagree with the captain's decision, he is trying to make sure that the passengers who paid for tickets do not get inconvenienced.
I've been denied jumpseats many a time due to another pilot bumping me off of it; I don't consider it a denial of the jumpseat.

 

[KC-10 Driver]

I think IB6 UB9's point is that he/she was bumped for an employee to sit in the jumpseat so to get a revenue passenger on. Then, he/she watched the aircraft leave with the jumpseat empty.

I think the implication was that the captain made up the story to have a reason to deny the jumpseat.

My interpretation of the post -- maybe I'm off-base.

 

[Dizel8]

Not that I know much, but does the NWA 319 not have two jumpseats up front?

 

[skykid]

AAFlyer, I took your advice and took a look around. You will not have a defined pension by the end of this decade. I don't like it either, but you might as well realize it now.

Associated Press
American Airlines May Need More Concessions
Friday March 18, 10:43 pm ET
American Airlines May Need More Worker Concessions Due to Cash Crunch, Agency Says


FORT WORTH, Texas (AP) -- A cash crunch could force American Airlines to seek more employee concessions by year's end, a credit ratings agency has warned.
The report was issued this week by Chicago-based Fitch Ratings, which lowered its outlook on American's debt to "negative" from "stable." The firm predicted Fort Worth-based American's cash reserve could get squeezed in 2006 unless fuel prices drop, costs go down or revenue improves...

 

[Mugs]

Interesting,

While I do not care for the wages at JB, or should say the EJET payscale.
It would be easy to say that UAL and USAIR pilot have done more damage "to the profession" recently.

Take a look at Us and UAs pay scale. The terminated pensions. This is putting the hurt to my pay and pension not JB. Hell U pilots on an aircraft average make less than JB now.

UA continues to offer cheap tickets and not pay it's bills in ORD while other companies like AMR continue payments to it's pension and pays their bills.

UA has been hiding under BK for over 2 years and they still need more time to organize a business plan. WTFO!!!

I am not going to even go into the outsourcing of flying. The end terminal at ORD had 6-9 E-170s in UAL colors parked at UAL gates.

Good thing I don't use the jumpseat politically. We could all point fingers and nobody would be in the jumpseat. In the end there are only a handful of pilots that would risk it all to better the profession, the others will do whats best for them.

AA

So if UAL and U had shut down 2 years ago, AMR could have returned to the old way of doing business and happily serviced its astronomical debt load while paying for your pension plan and preserving your payscale right? No low cost competition would have built in UAL / U's wake, and customers would have gladly paid big bucks for the privilege of flying nonstop from ORD to the West Coast on an MD80 instead of doing the same on a 737 out of MDW for much less. Thousands of out of work pilots would have exited the business never to return out of fear that going to work for an upstart and competeing with AMR might once again threaten the AMR pensions. Not to mention, the pilots working for Eagle that love you guys so much would never want to leave the AMR world and do anything else.

Get your head out of the sand.

 

[skykid]

If fuel had been where it was in 2003, AA would have made money in 2004.

AAflyer, don't you think that was a little too obvious to even post? Vanguard would have been in the black under those conditions, and they don't even exist anymore.

You don't want to have to explain to me that there is a difference between the LCC model and the Legacies? That's the unfortunate point!! The LCCs are setting the price domestically, Legacies wont survive without a strong domestic presence, Legacies therefore have to adapt to compete domestically. Less pay, less benefits, no PENSIONS.

 

[reachpilot]

I am continually amazed at the lack of professionalism in this industry. We are flying airplanes for a living, it is not brain science or rocket surgery! The pilots that are denying their jumpseats for political reasons need to get over themselves. I am carrying the ALPA card and I am not impressed with the organization at all. ALPA president is making 1/2 million a year and I practically qualify for food stamps. That is an organization you can be proud of! Whatever. Everyone is always welcome on my jumpseats. You can even have the left front seat and I will sit in back and have a diet coke.

 

[8vATE]

NWA Pilots also denying jumpseats...

Seems like the NWA group is also building a reputation for denying jetblue jumpseats...

 

[tailhookah]

Professionalism....

That's what this is all about... or lack of it. We all boast on this forum about being professional pilots yet then get in petty arguments about joining the "frat" or not joining the frat. The union should not be used as a tool to get in the way of being a professional pilot. Politics aside the system only works w/ reciprocating jumpseats on all sides. Why haven't ALPA guys denied jumpseats to APA guys or SWAPA guys or Frontier guys....they are unionized but not ALPA. ALPA came about for safety reasons and protection from out of control managements. If a company doesn't need ALPA's support because of good working relations then what's the big beef? Do you really enjoy paying ALPA/Duane Worth 2-3% of your paycheck??? That money could be going towards your retirement... frankly ALPA's income from me hasn't done me any good. I'm personally a furloughed ALPA guy and quite frankly would never let ALPA or non-ALPA ever get in the way of making a professional decision. Just because jetBlue is making a profit and the pilot wages are seen as a detriment to the rest of the industry doesn't make it jetBlue's fault that the legacy carriers are failing. They are failing because the environment has changed mainly due to the internet and managements inability to adapt while raping labor for more stock options, country club rights and bone-us's.... there are no secrets left in ticket pricing and the consumer knows exactly what the cheapest fares are... no longer are ticket agents and travel agents able to hoard the information. The legacy's are a broken business model and need major management restructuring.... labor has given enough, too much in my opinion. JetBlue is still the new kid in town and getting all the press.... no one was bitching about southwest low pay rates in the 90's or frontiers payrates today..... all in all it's just not right to deny B6 guys from jumpseats when a lot of B6 guys are furloughed....alpa should be happy furloughed guys are working.... but that's not always the case in an organization who, like the democratic party thinks the common person can't make a sound decision for themselves.....

 

[IB6 UB9]

So you weren't denied the jumpseat; you were bumped off of it by a NWA employee. You were initially given the jumpseat, but the NWA employee has a higher priority.
While you may disagree with the captain's decision, he is trying to make sure that the passengers who paid for tickets do not get inconvenienced.
I've been denied jumpseats many a time due to another pilot bumping me off of it; I don't consider it a denial of the jumpseat.

Andy,

Trust me...I know how it works. If I get bumped by someone with a higher priority then I won't think twice about it. But if the airplane leaves the gate with an empty jumpseat and I'm left standing there...well...how would you interpret it? I'd like to give someone the benefit of the doubt...but I don't see it here. Me sitting in that empty jumpseat would have inconvenienced who?

 

[IB6 UB9]

By the way Andy...does my ALPA card say the same thing on it that yours does?

 

[Andy]

Andy,

Trust me...I know how it works. If I get bumped by someone with a higher priority then I won't think twice about it. But if the airplane leaves the gate with an empty jumpseat and I'm left standing there...well...how would you interpret it? I'd like to give someone the benefit of the doubt...but I don't see it here. Me sitting in that empty jumpseat would have inconvenienced who?

OK, my bad. I missed the portion where he 'blocked' off one of the jumpseats. You're absolutely correct that this is BS. I suggest that you report to your jumpseat coordinator, with full details.

By the way Andy...does my ALPA card say the same thing on it that yours does?

And this totally bs comment was necessary because ...?

 

[CandyMan]

Pretty easy to solve this problem. If everyone refuses to fly any UAL pilot this stuff will stop real quick. Jump seat is reciprical. If everyone refuses to allow UAL pilots on their jumpseats then I think they will get the picture real quick with this jumpseat business.

What goes around comes around.

 

[IB6 UB9]

Its not a BS comment...what I am saying is I think we are furloughed from the same carrier. If you read into it further, the denial of a jumpseat by some is probably due to no representation...not saying so in this case...yet I hold an ALPA card with me. It just so happens to say furloughed on it, so I accepted a position at another carrier, and I am being denied the jumpseat because of that choice. And I did have a choice; go to work here or continue to enjoy my furlough pounding nails. Is that what these guys who are denying the jumpseat suggest? Is their thought process such that I should go sell insurance/pound nails, etc. so they are not forced to take a cut? Personally I don't see how the two are related, but this tunnel visionlike crap is filtering its way into the jumpseat now. What do you hope to gain by denying a jumpseat to someone?

 

[Andy]

Its not a BS comment...what I am saying is I think we are furloughed from the same carrier. If you read into it further, the denial of a jumpseat by some is probably due to no representation...not saying so in this case...yet I hold an ALPA card with me. It just so happens to say furloughed on it, so I accepted a position at another carrier, and I am being denied the jumpseat because of that choice. And I did have a choice; go to work here or continue to enjoy my furlough pounding nails. Is that what these guys who are denying the jumpseat suggest? Is their thought process such that I should go sell insurance/pound nails, etc. so they are not forced to take a cut? Personally I don't see how the two are related, but this tunnel visionlike crap is filtering its way into the jumpseat now. What do you hope to gain by denying a jumpseat to someone?

GEEZ, I HATE THE INTERNET! I totally misinterpreted your comment.
I'm furloughed from UAL, but my ALPA number is not the same as my file number because I was previously at a different ALPA carrier.

I do not understand the logic behind ANYONE denying another the jumpseat. Even when I was brand spanking new at UAL (during the aborted U merge) and there was serious bad blood between UAL and U, I never saw a U (or U express) pilot denied the jumpseat.

 

[Andy]

Pretty easy to solve this problem. If everyone refuses to fly any UAL pilot this stuff will stop real quick. Jump seat is reciprical. If everyone refuses to allow UAL pilots on their jumpseats then I think they will get the picture real quick with this jumpseat business.

What goes around comes around.

You're taking an isolated incident and blowing it out of proportion. Yes, there are some bad apples at UAL. But there are bad apples at every carrier. Should everyone do the same to NWAC pilots due to IB6 UB9's jumpseat denial?
It was not that long ago that pilots could only jumpseat on their own carriers. If we're not careful, that policy will return.

From reading the UAL ALPA forum, jumpseat denial does occur to UAL pilots on occasion. The course of action that those that have been denied has been to forward details to the jumpseat coordinator.

 

[IB6 UB9]

Pretty easy to solve this problem. If everyone refuses to fly any UAL pilot this stuff will stop real quick. Jump seat is reciprical. If everyone refuses to allow UAL pilots on their jumpseats then I think they will get the picture real quick with this jumpseat business.

What goes around comes around.

That might make you feel better, but it won't solve the problem. The problem stems from a few, and many are going to suffer because of those few. Not a new problem either, more like a recurring one.

 

[Dizel8]

Like IB6 says, let's not punish the many, because of misguided action of the very,very few.

Just get the info and forward it to the jumpseat rep, from there it should get into the appropiate channels and hopefully the problem will be solved.

Leave no jumpseater behind(, if there is room!)

 

[CandyMan]

Punishing the many will make the many punish the few which will allow the rest of you to jumpseat on UAL any time you want to