UAL MEC (daddy) has to warn pilots (children) to stop denying j.s. to jetblue pilots

[VaB]

Do whatever your conscience holds you to do. Do you want to keep people in lockstep with you by fear? Fear of losing a jumpseat? There's a term for that. In the end, I for one hope never to get what I truly deserve, and I hope you don't either.

Spur,

Ya know, I usually don't get involved in these member/non-member threads, but something about JB Bus Drvr's post engaged my typing fingers before my brain had a chance to say "Keep moving". I'm not a militant "5 percenter", but since I'm here and you called me out...

First off, I didn't particularly care for the last sentence of that guys letter either. I thought it was a pretty good letter explaining our, the FedEx pilot's, predicament, but the last line did seem out of place. But it's very naive to think that we (all pilots in the industry) will ever be one big happy family.

As for my "expect and deserve" comment what I meant was this. If a guy hasn't joined the union here at FedEx with some of the things that have been going on here, he (or she) is most likely never going to join. With that in mind, I don't think there is any point in trying to coerce or scare, or whatever, someone into joining. That's not what I was getting at by any means. However, I do think people must expect repercussions for their actions. If they are to cheap to join the union and pay their dues, then they must expect to not be recieved as warmly has someone that does. They should expect to be denied a j/s every now and then, and they should expect to have dinner by themselves. I've yet to see any unprofessional behavior towards a nonmember and that's the way it should be. I don't dislike them, I just think their brain isn't in the right place. Most of the nonmembers I've met are fairly nice enough, but it comes down to being cheap. I've yet to hear a good reason not to join.

Maybe we should start a new thread. ONE MORE DAY OF RETRO PAY. I think the nonmembers will get retro pay to.

 

[Dizel8]

My friend, you are so spot on. You should post your name and airline, so we can give you the recognition you so rightfully deserve.

 

[Boeingman]

My friend, you are so spot on. You should post your name and airline, so we can give you the recognition you so rightfully deserve.

He wouldn't have the balls. It is easier for those of his ilk to hide behind a keyboard and fire shots like that from behind his rock.

 

[semperfido]

...................ual capn's that do this ---shame on you

 

[Boeingman]

With that in mind, I don't think there is any point in trying to coerce or scare, or whatever, someone into joining. That's not what I was getting at by any means.

Yet you continue to say...........

They should expect to be denied a j/s every now and then,

What part of coersion is this I am missing here?

and they should expect to have dinner by themselves.

Now that ought to really scare some guys into joining.

I've yet to see any unprofessional behavior towards a nonmember and that's the way it should be. I don't dislike them, I just think their brain isn't in the right place.

The best way I have found over the years to get people to rethink (brain realignment) issues is over dinner and on jumpseats. Someday you will learn that there are many people out there very bitter with ALPA and it is most likely caused by a direct result a hosing. Especially since there are so many retreads in the industry now.

 

[Andy]

Dude, get the F#$k over it, your company gave ACA/ I-Air the bird just as much as they gave Ual the bird. Educate your dumb a$$ on the facts before you post crap like this. It's been said many times before here but apparantly it needs to be said here again for the ignorant people like you.

Read carefully;

Had ACA/ I-Air resinged with UAL, they would be about 2/3 to 1/2 the size they were because YOUR company (UAL) would have split the flying to Mesa/Chautauqua and whoever else was able to do it cheaper (ie; lowereing the bar) than ACA.

UAL was willing to f#$k ACA just as much as ACA wanted to tell UAL to get f#$ked. It's called business, deal with it.

Why this crap works it self into the JS is beyond me.

The point is, who cares who anybody works for, extend them the freaking courtesy of the JS, they earned it regardless of inter-airline politics.

You used the word "hate" in your post there candidate. Harboring hatred is usually a sign of somebody that has sub-standard character. Maybe you should re-read the original memo from your jumpseat guy about the problems at your company and who is really to "blame" for the woes of any UAL employee, then decide who you "hate" more.

If you want to make some counter point about the issue, go ahead. I guess you "hate" Jetblue just as much as I-Air and all this does is lump you into the pile of "children" at UAL who apparantly "hate" Jetblue pilots and are denying them a ride on the JS.

Cheers b1tch

You have GOT to be one of the stupidest mofos on the planet. I have not edited my original post where it CLEARLY states that in spite of my 'hatred' toward IAir pilots, I greased the skids to get an IAir pilot on the jumpseat. Had I not done so, I can almost guarantee that he would have been sitting at the gate due to lack of proper paperwork and positive verification of him. UAL's computer systems were down, and the captain would have been completely justified by denying the jumpseat.

Now let's waste a moment here discussing IAir (my apologies to all for allowing this young man to suck me into thread drift). You say that UAL would have reduced ACA's flying. You're full of bull$hit. The ONLY way that would have happened is if ACA failed to meet minimum performance ... UAL got smart and added minimum performance criteria to revised contracts. Now which UAL express carriers have lost any flying since their contracts have been renegotiated? That's right, none.
You can point to AWAC, but there is MUCH more below the surface going on there. AWAC will NOT see a flying cut from UAL express. But it sure is funny how many people see AWAC's U investment as being independent of UAL, when it is UAL pulling some strings to keep U going. I'm pretty sure that I know why they are keeping U alive, but will not post that information here.
As for all of you at Independence Air who bought into this lie from ACA management that UAL was going to cut your flying, you really need to look at their motivations and not take that crap at face value.

As for your statement about my hatred, I harbor no ill will toward any other pilot group. I know that many of your coworkers HATE UAL. So I suppose it only natural that a lot of UAL employees hate Independence Air.

Finally, I agree that inter-airline politics should have no place on the jumpseat. And that was the freaking point of my story. Get off the short school bus and read my original post.

 

[VaB]

The best way I have found over the years to get people to rethink (brain realignment) issues is over dinner and on jumpseats. Someday you will learn that there are many people out there very bitter with ALPA and it is most likely caused by a direct result a hosing. Especially since there are so many retreads in the industry now.

Boeingman,

Again, another example of my small brain not being able to get my point across on a message board.

FedEx is at an all time high in union membership. 123 nonmembers out of almost 4400. Better than 97% or so? What I was getting at is the guys that aren't in now, will PROBABLY never be. The guys that can be brought back, have been. Maybe it's a shame on me for not trying harder, but I think most guys are beyond that. Kudos to those that keep trying to convince nonmembers, but I don't. I haven't seen to many nonmembers denied jumpseats. Actually, I've never seen it personally. Most captains will allow them on, but grumble about it. I've never seen a captain say "Join or no jumpseat". That would be coercion. And the dinner thing, again it's not an attempt to scare or convince. It's just a repercussion for being cheap. I mean, come on, not having dinner with me? That's a punishment right there.

Again, I will acknowledge that I could be a better Union member by attempting to sway the fallen ones, but I don't know what I could say that they haven't already heard. Most of these guys are so entrenched in their "story" that they've come up with as an excuse, that they probably don't hear anything anymore.

ONE MORE DAY OF RETRO PAY. Even for the 123.

 

[furloughed dude]

Maybe ALPA carriers should rethink having jumpseat agreements with NON union carriers. When a company continually thumbs their nose at unions, which has helped make the profession what it is today (or better put, the way it used to be prior to 9/11). This would suck for the members that do jumpseat on non union carriers, but would certainly hurt the non union pilots more. They may rethink joining ALPA (or in house union) after they have real difficulties getting to work.

 

[DIAMONDDD]

Maybe ALPA carriers should rethink having jumpseat agreements with NON union carriers. When a company continually thumbs their nose at unions, which has helped make the profession what it is today (or better put, the way it used to be prior to 9/11). This would suck for the members that do jumpseat on non union carriers, but would certainly hurt the non union pilots more. They may rethink joining ALPA (or in house union) after they have real difficulties getting to work.

That sounds like an absolutely FABULOUS idea. You should get this initiative started immediately.

 

[skykid]

Maybe ALPA carriers should rethink having jumpseat agreements with NON union carriers. When a company continually thumbs their nose at unions, which has helped make the profession what it is today

No, leave the jumpseat out of it and give a new friend a ride to work! Or in my case, a ride to go fishing in P-Cola.

 

[AAflyer]

Interesting,

While I do not care for the wages at JB, or should say the EJET payscale.
It would be easy to say that UAL and USAIR pilot have done more damage "to the profession" recently.

Take a look at Us and UAs pay scale. The terminated pensions. This is putting the hurt to my pay and pension not JB. Hell U pilots on an aircraft average make less than JB now.

UA continues to offer cheap tickets and not pay it's bills in ORD while other companies like AMR continue payments to it's pension and pays their bills.

UA has been hiding under BK for over 2 years and they still need more time to organize a business plan. WTFO!!!

I am not going to even go into the outsourcing of flying. The end terminal at ORD had 6-9 E-170s in UAL colors parked at UAL gates.

Good thing I don't use the jumpseat politically. We could all point fingers and nobody would be in the jumpseat. In the end there are only a handful of pilots that would risk it all to better the profession, the others will do whats best for them.

AA

 

[skykid]

AAflyer, wake up and smell the toast burning. What you are seeing is the "legacy" airlines, including yours, respond to the new model. Your pension is about to be gone, and your company will probably have to go Ch11 to do it. Your company can't compete with the flood of LCCs that have no pensions to pay for and lower costs across the board, regardless of what happens at U and UAL. Your picture doesn't seem to be any bigger than the ramp at ORD.

 

[AAflyer]

skykid,

Our pension are over 80% funded, it would cost more to replace them now.
However pension legislation does need to be reformed.

Companies can not arbitrarily take themselves into Chpt.11. We have close to 3 Billion in cash. But I guess according to you all legacies will be in chpt 11 soon.

Fuel is the player now, our costs are very low for our mission. (LCCs and Legacies have different models). Please don't make me explain this to you.

If fuel had been where it was in 2003, AA would have made money in 2004.
Hell, if oil hits $65 a barrel no one will make money.Except SWA still hedged.

My view is far beyond the ramp at ORD, but you my friend seem to have the LCC sunglasses on, take them off and look around.

AA

 

[Boeingman]

Boeingman,

Again, another example of my small brain not being able to get my point across on a message board.

FedEx is at an all time high in union membership. 123 nonmembers out of almost 4400. Better than 97% or so? What I was getting at is the guys that aren't in now, will PROBABLY never be. The guys that can be brought back, have been. Maybe it's a shame on me for not trying harder, but I think most guys are beyond that. Kudos to those that keep trying to convince nonmembers, but I don't. I haven't seen to many nonmembers denied jumpseats. Actually, I've never seen it personally. Most captains will allow them on, but grumble about it. I've never seen a captain say "Join or no jumpseat". That would be coercion. And the dinner thing, again it's not an attempt to scare or convince. It's just a repercussion for being cheap. I mean, come on, not having dinner with me? That's a punishment right there.

Again, I will acknowledge that I could be a better Union member by attempting to sway the fallen ones, but I don't know what I could say that they haven't already heard. Most of these guys are so entrenched in their "story" that they've come up with as an excuse, that they probably don't hear anything anymore.

ONE MORE DAY OF RETRO PAY. Even for the 123.

No problem. Thanks for the reply.

 

[Boeingman]

Next time a UAL pilot denies someone a ride they ought to hand this to the Captain. It should put things in a better perspective for him (or her).


Associated Press
United Airlines Posts Wider 4Q Loss
Friday March 18, 8:27 am ET
United Airlines Widens Its 4Q Loss to $819 Million, Operating Revenue Rises


NEW YORK (AP) -- United Airlines said Friday that its loss widened in the fourth quarter to $819 million from $630 million a year ago.
The carrier's parent company, UAL Corp., posted a loss of $741 million for the quarter, compared with a loss of $475 million a year ago.

United Airlines, which has been operating under Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection since December 2002, said its loss from operations for the quarter was $655 million, compared with $231 million a year earlier. Operating revenue rose to $3.89 billion from $3.68 billion.

In its annual report filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission, United Airlines said fourth-quarter 2004 results include a charge of $47 million from adjusting its Mileage Plus liability. The company also recognized a gain from the sale of its investment in Orbitz of $158 million and recorded $226 million in reorganization items during the quarter. The fourth quarter also includes a curtailment charge of $152 million related to the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation's move to take over the pension plan for United's active and retired pilots.

In the year-ago quarter, United Airlines had a gain of $78 million from selling its investment Orbitz, a charge for writing down aircraft leased to Air Canada and $294 million in reorganization items.

For the full year, United Airlines posted a narrower loss of $2 billion in 2004, compared with a loss of $3 billion in 2003. The company's loss from operatons was $1.17 billion, compared with $1.61 billion a year ago.

Total operating revenue rose to $16.03 billion from $14.6 billion. Passenger revenue for the airline increased to $12.48 billion from $11.3 billion.

Parent UAL posted a narrower loss of $1.72 billion in 2004, compared with a loss of $2.81 billion a year earlier.

 

[fatboyplt]

I commute out of BTV on B6. Always considered the J/S a privilidge to receive and to get. This thread sickens me. Now after all the paycuts, pension issues, blah, blah, everyone has to be concerned about getting to and from work because of a minute group of morons, regardless of which airline.

Ladies and Gentlemen lets not Richard this J/S privilidge up. Just because some CheeseRichards at whatever airline have chosen to make an opinion that no one cares about especially their spouses does not mean that the entire group is at fault.

I will speak to all the UAL capts that I know and spread the word of this BS that is happening. I ask all who read this forum to do the same in kind at your respective airlines. All are welcome on my J/S anytime anywhere. To all whom I have had the privilidge of riding with, Thanks for getting me to and from work.
Never have I taken it for granted and no one else should as well..

Birdman

 

[oldxfr8dog]

I commute out of BTV on B6. Always considered the J/S a privilidge to receive and to get. This thread sickens me. Now after all the paycuts, pension issues, blah, blah, everyone has to be concerned about getting to and from work because of a minute group of morons, regardless of which airline.
(snip)
All are welcome on my J/S anytime anywhere. To all whom I have had the privilidge of riding with, Thanks for getting me to and from work.
Never have I taken it for granted and no one else should as well..

Birdman

FINALLY, a voice of reason!!!
Birdman, you are a gentleman and display the maturity and wisdom that all pilots should emulate.

 

[fatboyplt]

Please forgive my spelling error last post ref. Privileges Birdman

 

[furloughed dude]

I am not saying that Jetblue has caused the problems at the legacy carriers, but they did contribute. When you have lower cost labor (prior to 9/11) and no pension plan, it lowers the bar. UAL and UAIR had problems despite Jetblue, but the Jetblue plan isn't friendly to union labor. A five year contract isn't exactly labor friendly.

ALPA needs to differentiate between pilot friends and union members. Airtran and SWA have in house unions and should be obviously be included in any jumpseat agreements. I would definitely support limiting jumpseat to union members only. While it may be unfortunate to lose access to Jetblues jumpseat, it would certainly be a reason to push for a union. They have very limited city pairings anyway. They have a ton of commuters at JFK and this would definitely effect their operations.

If they want to enjoy using the very large legacy networks to get to work, let them pay for their own tickets or move to New York or a Jetblue city.

Make the jumpseat a political tool! Join up or take greyhound!

 

[stillflyn]

Furloughed dude,

Let it go..... jetBlue will let you reinterview in another 6 months. Good luck.