UAL MEC (daddy) has to warn pilots (children) to stop denying j.s. to jetblue pilots

[IB6 UB9]

So you weren't denied the jumpseat; you were bumped off of it by a NWA employee. You were initially given the jumpseat, but the NWA employee has a higher priority.
While you may disagree with the captain's decision, he is trying to make sure that the passengers who paid for tickets do not get inconvenienced.
I've been denied jumpseats many a time due to another pilot bumping me off of it; I don't consider it a denial of the jumpseat.

Andy,

Trust me...I know how it works. If I get bumped by someone with a higher priority then I won't think twice about it. But if the airplane leaves the gate with an empty jumpseat and I'm left standing there...well...how would you interpret it? I'd like to give someone the benefit of the doubt...but I don't see it here. Me sitting in that empty jumpseat would have inconvenienced who?

 

[IB6 UB9]

By the way Andy...does my ALPA card say the same thing on it that yours does?

 

[Andy]

Andy,

Trust me...I know how it works. If I get bumped by someone with a higher priority then I won't think twice about it. But if the airplane leaves the gate with an empty jumpseat and I'm left standing there...well...how would you interpret it? I'd like to give someone the benefit of the doubt...but I don't see it here. Me sitting in that empty jumpseat would have inconvenienced who?

OK, my bad. I missed the portion where he 'blocked' off one of the jumpseats. You're absolutely correct that this is BS. I suggest that you report to your jumpseat coordinator, with full details.

By the way Andy...does my ALPA card say the same thing on it that yours does?

And this totally bs comment was necessary because ...?

 

[CandyMan]

Pretty easy to solve this problem. If everyone refuses to fly any UAL pilot this stuff will stop real quick. Jump seat is reciprical. If everyone refuses to allow UAL pilots on their jumpseats then I think they will get the picture real quick with this jumpseat business.

What goes around comes around.

 

[IB6 UB9]

Its not a BS comment...what I am saying is I think we are furloughed from the same carrier. If you read into it further, the denial of a jumpseat by some is probably due to no representation...not saying so in this case...yet I hold an ALPA card with me. It just so happens to say furloughed on it, so I accepted a position at another carrier, and I am being denied the jumpseat because of that choice. And I did have a choice; go to work here or continue to enjoy my furlough pounding nails. Is that what these guys who are denying the jumpseat suggest? Is their thought process such that I should go sell insurance/pound nails, etc. so they are not forced to take a cut? Personally I don't see how the two are related, but this tunnel visionlike crap is filtering its way into the jumpseat now. What do you hope to gain by denying a jumpseat to someone?

 

[Andy]

Its not a BS comment...what I am saying is I think we are furloughed from the same carrier. If you read into it further, the denial of a jumpseat by some is probably due to no representation...not saying so in this case...yet I hold an ALPA card with me. It just so happens to say furloughed on it, so I accepted a position at another carrier, and I am being denied the jumpseat because of that choice. And I did have a choice; go to work here or continue to enjoy my furlough pounding nails. Is that what these guys who are denying the jumpseat suggest? Is their thought process such that I should go sell insurance/pound nails, etc. so they are not forced to take a cut? Personally I don't see how the two are related, but this tunnel visionlike crap is filtering its way into the jumpseat now. What do you hope to gain by denying a jumpseat to someone?

GEEZ, I HATE THE INTERNET! I totally misinterpreted your comment.
I'm furloughed from UAL, but my ALPA number is not the same as my file number because I was previously at a different ALPA carrier.

I do not understand the logic behind ANYONE denying another the jumpseat. Even when I was brand spanking new at UAL (during the aborted U merge) and there was serious bad blood between UAL and U, I never saw a U (or U express) pilot denied the jumpseat.

 

[Andy]

Pretty easy to solve this problem. If everyone refuses to fly any UAL pilot this stuff will stop real quick. Jump seat is reciprical. If everyone refuses to allow UAL pilots on their jumpseats then I think they will get the picture real quick with this jumpseat business.

What goes around comes around.

You're taking an isolated incident and blowing it out of proportion. Yes, there are some bad apples at UAL. But there are bad apples at every carrier. Should everyone do the same to NWAC pilots due to IB6 UB9's jumpseat denial?
It was not that long ago that pilots could only jumpseat on their own carriers. If we're not careful, that policy will return.

From reading the UAL ALPA forum, jumpseat denial does occur to UAL pilots on occasion. The course of action that those that have been denied has been to forward details to the jumpseat coordinator.

 

[IB6 UB9]

Pretty easy to solve this problem. If everyone refuses to fly any UAL pilot this stuff will stop real quick. Jump seat is reciprical. If everyone refuses to allow UAL pilots on their jumpseats then I think they will get the picture real quick with this jumpseat business.

What goes around comes around.

That might make you feel better, but it won't solve the problem. The problem stems from a few, and many are going to suffer because of those few. Not a new problem either, more like a recurring one.

 

[Dizel8]

Like IB6 says, let's not punish the many, because of misguided action of the very,very few.

Just get the info and forward it to the jumpseat rep, from there it should get into the appropiate channels and hopefully the problem will be solved.

Leave no jumpseater behind(, if there is room!)

 

[CandyMan]

Punishing the many will make the many punish the few which will allow the rest of you to jumpseat on UAL any time you want to

 

[Dizel8]

How about we just find out who the few are and let that companys pilots straighten them out!

 

[CandyMan]

Captains with the big captain itis for jumpseaters need to be kicked in the weany. No doubt about it

 

[Dave Benjamin]

I would definitely support limiting jumpseat to union members only. <snip>Make the jumpseat a political tool! Join up or take greyhound!

The only tool here is you. Do you have any idea how many ALPA pilots commute on non-union SkyWest? Not to mention the furloughed ALPA pilots that work for SkyWest and commute on ALPA carriers. I'm not sure but I think SkyWest has over 1500 departures daily.

Here's a novel twist. Why doesn't ALPA find a way to make it irresistable to B6 pilots? If ALPA could show B6 pilots compelling reasons to join then maybe B6 pilots would vote for representation.

I'm pro ALPA but anti-blackmail. Noone wins in a jumpseat war.

 

[Hutcha]

Captains with the big captain itis for jumpseaters need to be kicked in the weany. No doubt about it

Come again????

 

[wndshr]

with the technology that we have via the internet, dispatch releases, f/a, gate agents and friends that work at each carrier....it would be very easy to find out who this captain(s) is/are. then a little peer pressure in the form of a "blanket party" would take care of the problem!

 

[CandyMan]

Captains that are jerks about giving up jumpseats need to be kicked in the weeny

 

[Dizel8]

Shouldn't that read "teeny weeny"

 

[fatboyplt]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Ref my post #56. I have contacted the chief pilot office in jfk and they are well aware of the issue ref J/S denials with B6. I have also written to our Vice President of Flight ops concerning this as well. Hopefully this crap will be laid to rest immediately.

I will repeat my sentiments. The jumpseat is a privlege that can be taken away and it can take years to recover.

While we all have opinions ref state of industry concerns lets not use this universal benefit to make life miserable just to go to and from work.

My .02
Thanks to all I ride with.

Birdman
BTV

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Ref my post #56. I have contacted the chief pilot office in jfk and they are well aware of the issue ref J/S denials with B6. I have also written to our Vice President of Flight ops concerning this as well. Hopefully this crap will be laid to rest immediately.

I will repeat my sentiments. The jumpseat is a privlege that can be taken away and it can take years to recover.

While we all have opinions ref state of industry concerns lets not use this universal benefit to make life miserable just to go to and from work.

My .02
Thanks to all I ride with.

Birdman
BTV

Unless it is in your CBA that the PIC has unquestionable authority and use of the jumpseat, your company can easily say..... [and even then ]

"Effective immediately. XYZ [insert your airline here] jumpeats will only be used for official company or gov't use. There will be no personal jumpseating in the cockpit or cabin"

So play nice. Be a good boy.

 

[fatboyplt]

What does play nice be a good boy, exactly mean...

I certainly understand the ramifications of J/S being revoked and hope that it is never done at UAL. That is why I am responding this thread ref my previous posts..

Thank you
Birdman

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

What does play nice be a good boy, exactly mean...

I certainly understand the ramifications of J/S being revoked and hope that it is never done at UAL. That is why I am responding this thread ref my previous posts..

Thank you
Birdman

It means what the level headed guys have been saying. Trying to "control" your world being denying jumpseats to "other" pilots will only cause distractions. Solution: shut down the jumpseat....

Of course companies will use "The peanut butter jar principle of management."

 

[fatboyplt]

Rez,
I believe I am one of the level headed ones you are writing about ref post 56 & 57. So I will not engage further discussion.

To all that read this post, I have made my thoughts known as I said I would concerning J/S problems to my flight office and above. The only way to square these problems is to bring them to the forefront and address accordingly. Hopefully this situation will subside immediately. I see that there is another thread currently speaking to this issue. I appreciate reading all the responses.
See you all on my or your J/S.

Thank you
Birdman
BTV

 

[8vATE]

Of course companies will use "The peanut butter jar principle of management."

Hey Rez...

That reference shows your history....

It was probably lost on alot of the readers if they hadn't been at USAirways...


That was a great read in Airwaves......
So true...

 

[Snake]

A few years back I was denied a jumpseat at MDW on a now defunct airline. When I showed up to the gate, the gate agent refused to let me talk directly to the captain. After everyone was boarded, she told me I was denied because the captain had stated that he was near MTW and would only be under by 150 lbs if I were in the jumpseat. Running out of options, I went over to the competitor. They welcomed me aboard and I told the crew what had just happen. As the captain listened, he reached into his flight bag and pulled out a manual. He called it their "Hit List". He told me that when something like this happens to one of their own, they get the name of the offending captain, airline, flight number and day of the offense. This persons name is now on a hit list. If he tries to jumpseat and his name is found, he is denied and told of the incident and the date and place the incident took place. "That way," he said, "we punish the individual and not the airline."

I think Ty Webb is full of Crap also.

 

[Andy]

As the captain listened, he reached into his flight bag and pulled out a manual. He called it their "Hit List". He told me that when something like this happens to one of their own, they get the name of the offending captain, airline, flight number and day of the offense. This persons name is now on a hit list. If he tries to jumpseat and his name is found, he is denied and told of the incident and the date and place the incident took place. "That way," he said, "we punish the individual and not the airline."

We (all pilots) need to get something like this implemented.

This thread has been great for reinforcing to me why I always want to live in domicile.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

We (all pilots) need to get something like this implemented.

This thread has been great for reinforcing to me why I always want to live in domicile.

Wow....everybody carrying a list. With no guidelines and policy. IN five years, EVERYBODY will be on SOMEBODY's list......

cute......

My 3 year old doesn't know this much spite.....

Fear of a j/s denial contributes or dictates where you live....?

 

[Snake]

Wow....everybody carrying a list. With no guidelines and policy. IN five years, EVERYBODY will be on SOMEBODY's list......

cute......

My 3 year old doesn't know this much spite.....

Fear of a j/s denial contributes or dictates where you live....?

What's wrong with that? I thought at the time and still do now that it was a pretty clever device to punish the jerks out there. If you J/S on most of the Alpa carriers, they check your name on the scab list. So I don't see any harm in a "Hit List", that is unless you are one of the jerks that has screwed someone over and they remember it. It's a small industry and you never know when the guy you punched in the nose is gonna punch back.

I think Ty Webb is full crap also.

 

[Boeingman]

Lists accomplish nothing. Almost always,those who act like children about the jumpseat, don't commute. Their fellow pilots bear the brunt of retaliation.

No wonder management plays us all as fools.

 

[Snake]

Lists accomplish nothing. Almost always,those who act like children about the jumpseat, don't commute. Their fellow pilots bear the brunt of retaliation.

No wonder management plays us all as fools.

How would this hurt fellow pilots? It is punishing the jerk, not the airline.

 

[Boeingman]

How would this hurt fellow pilots? It is punishing the jerk, not the airline.

What are the odds that someone on the list will show up? Sooner or later the denied will take it out on another pilot wearing the uniform of the airline. It has always worked that way.

In theory a workable pinpoint plan. In reality, it wouldn't make a difference.