UAL Furloughees... We're supposed to have jobs

[Skippy]

Skippy,

If you want to fly these RJs in the left seat, why don't you negotiate to have United fly them? Then you can sit in whatever seat you want.

joe, i haven't once discussed the j4j agreement as being one for the furloughees to be in the LEFT seat--- the agreement was the FO seat- and all i am saying is that the UX carriers live up to their end of the LOA-- for if it wasnt for said LOA they wouldnt be getting the qualifying aircraft-- It appears the UX carriers not adhereing to the LOA are trying to have their cake and eat it too and not reciprocate to the very people that are making their company and pilots thrive and prosper.

I cant make it any simpler than that-- im not upset that the flowbacks arent in captain slots--- it would be nice, but that wasnt what was negotiated- so think of this:

1. either live up to the agreed to and negotiated LOA or simply give back or take out the qualifying aircraft

or 2. from now on, you dont get any more qualifying aircraft unless we get the left seats. I wonder how quick i'd be in class for the right seat with that threat.

asking me to negotiate stuff is like me asking you to do one of the above- we both have no say so all im saying is both companies should live up to the LOA------ UA already has since your flying revenue with those planes in UA colors-- now reciprocate , that's all im requesting.


The sad part is being a furloughee , what remedies do i and others have, and what compensation should be due us.




SKIPPY

 

[SnowBoardBum]

I say SkyWest hire the UAL furloughees to the bottom of the list to meet the requirements of the LOA then furlough their a$$.

 

[FSIGRAD]

I not sure how many "qualifying aircraft" Shuttle America has added recently but my guess is zero. If anything we (RAH) are pulling 7 145's because UAL is asking for a 20% decrease in rates. BB called it "obscene".

 

[sstearns2]

Joey, these agreements are all voluntary. Some carriers accept them, some don't. They weigh the pros and cons and make a decision. Nothing is ever forced on them. With ALPA, the Skywest pilots would never have to worry about some super-seniority flowback affecting them unless they agreed to it. As it stands right now, management could agree to it without even asking their permission. I wonder what management would say if UAL came to them and said "we've worked out a deal with UAL ALPA to allow you to have 100 86-seat jets with a guaranteed profit margin, but it comes with the requirement that you let the UAL furloughees occupy the left seats until they're recalled." Think Jerry would turn down all that revenue? Not a chance in hell. He'd screw over his pilots, and they wouldn't be able to say a damned thing about it.

Yeah, they've much safer without ALPA representation.

I've flown for Skywest for 8 years now and I can pretty much assure you that Jerry would turn down any deal that put outside pilots anywhere but the bottom of our seniority list. Do you think ALPA and UAL were not pushing for that last time? Do you think ALPA national wouldn't be doing everything they could to get UAL pilots in the left seat of our airplanes even if Skywest was part of ALPA?

I'd love to see the furloughed UAL pilots back at Skywest. It was a great group of guys last time.

Scott

 

[AA717driver]

The whole idea behind flowbacks is that the regionals have profited dramatically from mainline downsizing--to the detriment of the pilots flowing back.

At AA, mainline downsized, Eagle doubled in size.

UAL is parking the 737's, flying picked up by the RJ's.

Pretty simple equation. Who is to blame? Everyone who has been associated with a Legacy airline for the past 20 years. Unions were asleep at the wheel. Management took advantage of it.

Pilots are paying for it.

TC

 

[Goodstick]

The whole idea behind flowbacks is that the regionals have profited dramatically from mainline downsizing--to the detriment of the pilots flowing back.

At AA, mainline downsized, Eagle doubled in size.

UAL is parking the 737's, flying picked up by the RJ's.

Pretty simple equation. Who is to blame? Everyone who has been associated with a Legacy airline for the past 20 years. Unions were asleep at the wheel. Management took advantage of it.

Pilots are paying for it.

TC

Your facts are way off. I was hired in 99 with Eagle and our pilot numbers were 2700. Guess what they are now? 2700 and with pilots on furlough. And yes I was one of the pilots that upgraded after 5 years only to get displaced back to the right seat so AA pilots and newly acquired TWA pilots can take my hard earned Capt seat.

As far as your earlier gripe about the expiration of the flowthru agreement, it was just that. The flowthru agreement expired and you were able to hold what your seniority allows. By the way, an arbitrator agreed with that interpretation of the agreement.

Lets keep our facts straight....shall we?

 

[Goodstick]

At American Eagle Here are some numbers for 717driver. You aren't the only one as I had to explain this to an AA crew the other day while jumpseating.

Fact: All SAABs retired.
Fact: All but 10 EMB-135 parked
Fact: No new airplane orders or deliveries in the last 5 years.
Fact :75 pilot furloughs and the pilot numbers have remained about the same numbers since I was hired in 99.

How is Eagle "still growing" or "doubling in size"?

 

[CRJ's suck]

Funny you say that-
Skywest doesn't create any job by itself- it flies other companies passengers- but what was traditionally skywest flying is the Brasilia flying. That is shrinking. They are not furloughing ONLY because they are taking on more RJs. RJs that under the agreement with united, would be flown by UAL furloughees. Why should UAL pilots be on the street when it's the Brasilia flying that is shrinking? Not the qualifying RJs...

I think the difference in my attitude is that I never got into regional flying even considering it could be a career. I got into it to qualify myself for a major, not to encourage the transfer of major airline flying to my regional. The whole purpose of the "regional" sector is to get around seniority and higher pay. Sorry that pisses you off. It does me too

I'm not disagreeing on one part of your statement, Skywest does fly other companies passengers. Last time I checked though, the Brasilia flying for United was being done under the United Express banner. The new planes are being flown under the united express banner. So if they are getting rid of one brasilia and getting one RJ, therotically, there is no need to hire any more pilots. Now, I understand that it is a qualifying aircraft, but no jobs are being created.

They are two seperate companies. If Skywest gets more airplanes and actually needs to hire because of that, I am all for hiring nothing but furloughed United pilots.

I don't see any reason a Skywest guy should be on the street so they can bring in someone for any other company.

 

[glasspilot]

At American Eagle Here are some numbers for 717driver. You aren't the only one as I had to explain this to an AA crew the other day while jumpseating.

Fact: All SAABs retired.
Fact: All but 10 EMB-135 parked
Fact: No new airplane orders or deliveries in the last 5 years.
Fact :75 pilot furloughs and the pilot numbers have remained about the same numbers since I was hired in 99.

How is Eagle "still growing" or "doubling in size"?

EVERY pilot at Eagle falls into 1 of 2 catagories:

1. You signed a 16 year horrendous contract, or

2. You applied for a job with a carrier with said 16 year horrendous contract.

What's funny is you ding dongs gave up the farm...pay, work rules, qol, AND agreed to a 16 year contract to get one thing. Flow through. And that's the one gem that burned you all the most.

None of you could see past your noses and realize that you're more likely to get a job at AA if you simply APPLY for the job than jump through crazy hoops to make sure it's GIVEN to you.

I say, you made your 16 year bed. Snuggle up and get comfy and stop whining to the rest of us.

 

[Goodstick]

EVERY pilot at Eagle falls into 1 of 2 catagories:

1. You signed a 16 year horrendous contract, or

2. You applied for a job with a carrier with said 16 year horrendous contract.

What's funny is you ding dongs gave up the farm...pay, work rules, qol, AND agreed to a 16 year contract to get one thing. Flow through. And that's the one gem that burned you all the most.

None of you could see past your noses and realize that you're more likely to get a job at AA if you simply APPLY for the job than jump through crazy hoops to make sure it's GIVEN to you.

I say, you made your 16 year bed. Snuggle up and get comfy and stop whining to the rest of us.

I didn't sign the contract. It was inplace when I was hired. As far as qol...its better then most regionals so someone else needs another fact check. I also sense a little AArogance in your belittleing statements.

You don't hear me whining about my job ever. I actually like it and prob make more then senior Super 80 FOs to boot. Granted its taken a while to get here but you won't see me applying for a furlough fodder position anytime soon. What I was trying to explain to some was simple. Eagle is not growing as many uninformed keep stating.