Ual / Erp

[P3-Adub]

HVY

U30-2 is certainly a great idea if not a new one, the shuttle worked well. At one time not all that long ago we were debating on whethere to add A320s and 757s to the shuttle mix. Might be the right answer at the right time. Sure the overall traffic is down, we'll see how all of the smaller jets are received when the traffic picks up and slots become harder to obtain. There have been occasions when after poor weather in SFO a 400 has been used to pick up the slack in the operation between LAX and SFO, makes a lot of sense to me ! That is if other no frills carriers ( no harm intended ) are cutting into market share once owned by us. Gotta do something to get back in the game. I have no problem flying a shuttle type operation anywhere in the country especially when there is opportunity to move up some day eventually. One thing is for sure, it will be a much longer road to haul. The U30-2 would generate the need to bring back our furloughees a lot quicker. Just my opinion.

 

[Sleepyhead]

Hey Hvy,

What is the feeling about the TA when you talk with other pilots in flt ops and in the cockpit? Are many people saying they will vote "NO'?

 

[P3-Adub]

No FAs/ No Deal ?

Since the flight attendants have said no &%$#ing way they will consider anything, does this blow the deal ? Or have I missed part of the proposal that says the pilots will go at this alone ? Also, with all of the "NO Way" response from a lot of the pilots, is there any negotiating room in the proposal ? Pretty obvious a concession of some form will need to take place just wondering if there is a mechanism to find middle ground without giving away the farm, ie; selling out the furloughed folks indefinitely ? I too agree that the pay issue is OK, I just hate to see us give up flying without trying to fight back some.

 

[SFOA320]

Re: It will get shot down

The threat of 300 more furloughs looms if the ERP doesn't pass.

Hvy

Just wondering, what is the source is for this "additional furlough of 300" -- has management officially stated this? Just a threat so we'll pass the ERP? Anyone with reliable source for this info?
If reliable, what's the timetable? When loads drop in September?

Thanks.

 

[F/O]

I'm afraid there will be more furloughs either way the ERP goes.

Should it pass, the fleet will shrink from the current 567 to as low as 534 and there will be furloughs. There is NO clause in the ERP that would preclude further furloughs as a result of this fleet downsizing.

Should it fail, the company will shrink anyway as mgt continues to blatantly ignore the contract and Express continues to take delivery of RJs.

Either way, Express gets more mainline flying. For mainline pilots it's a lose/lose situation. If you are junior, a yes vote is a vote to screw yourself over.

 

[P3-Adub]

F/O

Just wondering, I thought that the ERP stated that there would be no furthur use of "force majure" if the ERP passed ? I know that management never really used that term exactly, I wonder if this is just smoke and mirrors ? I took a quick look at the numbers in the latest crystal ball, 543, 567, 567, and something a bit higher for 2005 ??? Suppose this accounts for planes that are already parked along with planned A-320 deliveries or are you hearing different at local council meetings ? I optimistically believe that the only way back to profitability is to retake market share with the likes of the aggressive stance we are taking in Denver. Now that Frontier is beginning to feel some growing pains, the real story unfolds and they are not in as great of shape as earlier believed. Hats off to the efforts over there at Frontier, I would just like to see us get back our previous share. Kind of hard to do with 85 less planes ! As an indicator, total passenger volume was down only 6% from last year during this holiday weekend and UAL better pay attention to that. I can see a shortage of planes to do the job and I am sure that is the reason for all of the RJs, I still think it would be incredibley easy to pull the old 737-200s back into service with very little training requirements. You have to believe that our cost basis on this plane is next to nothing ? OK, they burn a little more gas, cannot be that much ??? Just a thought. Regarding the additional 300 for furlough, is there a concrete source of that info or is it the same as the 2,500 pilots total that was floated around these pages so certainly for so long ? At some point it is more cost effective to retain rather than cut.


I am definitely looking for the glass half full outlook. Sure hope that it is not an all or nothing proposal, the health of the company and our careers depends on a creative solution that does not favor one side too much. No coolaid here !

 

[GuppyPuppy]

I love it!!!

The company says that if we pass the ERP they won't furlough anymore pilots. What a crock. As F/O states, the company will "blatantly ignore" the contract and do what they please.

Whatever happened to the U-30.2 idea? Was this something that was created on this board? I'm on LOA and sort of out of the loop so please clue me in.

Where did this 300 furlough number come from?

This whole thing is completely frustrating. I'm glad that I took the LOA and can now step back and enjoy my job looking at glaciers, bears and whales from 1,000 feet, or so!

Cheers!

GP

 

[dog]

First the UAL ALPA board as some good info. I would get access to the board and learn about the happenings within the pilot group. If you dont have access send me an email and I'll help you out. Dont need compuserve, AOL just internet access and be a UAL pilot (at one time).

300 more pilots is a management scare tactic that was presented by Mr Presser( He and the current MC crafted this beautiful POS, also to be Chapter 1 of Flying the Line III. The crystal ball publication as well as others have said just the opposite.

MC and Presser have been spreading the BK tactic if this doesn't pass. He says half the BOD want to declare BK now. However CEO and COF have said no BK...Who right?

IAM and AFA have to be apart of POS for us to play..They both say no but "we will lead the company" anyway with the ERP

Biggest piece of the puzzle is the codeshare..No MR according to the MEC....However the bylaws use to state that anything over 1% share must be MR (but the latest version of the bylaws that particular paragraph( 12) was omitted...we will see if it magically reappears since to change the bylaws 2/3 MR must vote to make the change(they call it a "clerical error")

Presser may have more conflict of interest in this little gem then previously preceived. It appears that he also may be in business with GE Capital(the folks that will help finance the rjs in the codeshare)(this is in the verification process right now)..He gets a "success fee if the POS passes and another chunk for the codeshare...(I'm sure he can be objective) He is also part of the company KLEIN & CO that thought the USAIR merger was a good deal and sold us the ESOP. A real creditable advisor the MC and MEC have obtained for the union.

You can also find the C12 officers letters of why they voted yes to send the POS to the masses. The chairman's letter and his actions at ops this past week speaks loudly of his position.

Vote No on POS since 844 of us can't

Vote Yes on MC recall its the right thing to do

Can't vote on U-30.2 since UAL is planning to be a virtual airline.

 

[P3-Adub]

Guppy Puppy,

Are you with L.A.B. Flying Service in Juneau ? Sure is pretty up there. I met LAB once before, quite a character ! Do they still fly only VFR LAB style up there ? How is the fishing ? Your photo looks like a Cherokee 6, a favorite of LAB. I too took a LOA and have been seeking info. F/O says that U30-2 was brought up at a council meeting by an attendee and the officers acted as if it were a completely foreign idea ??? Go figure. Too much coolaid. Sounds like there may some creativity in personal gains from what dog has to say. Lets just hope that all is above board and not in line with the likes of Enron and Worldcom.

Have fun up there !