UAL/CAL near deal

[cksport]

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?id=37940&ba=1

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

It been a done deal... it is all showmanship at this point...IMHO

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Date of Hire is the way they should handle the pilot list integration

 

[GuppyWN]

Date of Hire is the way they should handle the pilot list integration

Are you saying that a 10 year UAL pilot, who is furloughed, should be placed above a 5 year CAL pilot who has never been furloughed?

I disagree. Years of service possibly, but more fairly would be on property integration.

Now. If we're talking Airtran and Southwest then I agree with DOH! :laugh:

Gup

 

[ATA For Now!]

I have less than 100 people below me on the list at UA. For me, it truly doesn't matter what they do. I just hope BOTH groups have seen what can happen if things are done fairly and poorly. It will make or break the new airline.

 

[Flopgut]

I have less than 100 people below me on the list at UA. For me, it truly doesn't matter what they do. I just hope BOTH groups have seen what can happen if things are done fairly and poorly. It will make or break the new airline.

I'm a CAL pilot and I'm cautiously optomistic. Our group is made up of a lot of airlines and we've learned from that. You're right, it's more important to have a future than to get too greedy at this moment.

 

[Shrek]

Date of Hire is the way they should handle the pilot list integration

I urge you and others here to review ALPA Merger Policy (ALPA vs ALPA Airline SLI)

 

[Yuppyguppy]

Cool heads will prevail...stop shooting. IF this goes through this monster of an airline will have the firepower expand over the next few years.

 

[145BOSS]

It is kind of exciting to think of working for a major airline that has major domestic and international hubs in New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston, San Francisco and Washington DC as well as major presences in both Narita and Heathrow, sounds like a very promising company. As said before though, I am cautiosly optimistic.

 

[Shrek]

Cool heads will prevail...stop shooting. IF this goes through this monster of an airline will have the firepower expand over the next few years.

Agreed.........let each property put together their best SLI scenarios - debate it - negotiate it and then pass it on to the arbitrator - who will then DECIDE it

LONG term a great oppurtunity to have a career again - assuming one side or the other does NOT drop the ball for scope/pay/work rules before the the combined contract is put together.....

 

[145BOSS]

I think we can agree on both sides that Sean Roth (SFR), can be excludued from any final list...

 

[bizicmo]

It is kind of exciting to think of working for a major airline that has major domestic and international hubs in New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston, San Francisco and Washington DC as well as major presences in both Narita and Heathrow, sounds like a very promising company. As said before though, I am cautiosly optimistic.

What, no love for Cleveland???

 

[cybourg10]

It could be a very profitable company but please take back scope with this deal rather than worrying about 15 yr 777 pay! At the very least put a cap on the current number of 70 seaters (props included). UALPA & CALPA really need to work together on this one. I am cautiously optimistic.

 

[Fly2AK]

I just hope ALPA can take this opportunity to recapture what is left of our careers and bring back all the UAL/CAL furloughed pilots and rebuild a future should this merger go through. I also hope UAL/CAL ALPA puts a cap on the current 70 seaters and requires the termination of these contracts when the come due. Here is to optimism! Good luck to all of us.

 

[contrail67]

Don't forget a good "buyout" for the older folks...and get all the furloughs back.

 

[Jetjockey]

I think we can agree on both sides that Sean Roth (SFR), can be excludued from any final list...

But that would ruin the "blanket party" we have planned for him after the merger.

 

[densoo]

Are you saying that a 10 year UAL pilot, who is furloughed, should be placed above a 5 year CAL pilot who has never been furloughed?

This could be closer to reality than one might think. From 1999-2001 UAL hired about 2000 pilots the mainline. Around the same time CAL also hired 2000, except they weren't to the mainline, they were at XJT, which was then spun off without any resistance from many pilots who don't want "those" kind of pilots on the property. This may be coming back to haunt them. There is a huge whole in the CAL seniority list at that point. I don't see it so far fetched to have an "adjustment" of sorts for this, advantageous to the junior UAL pilots, not so much for the CAL pilots.

 

[Flopgut]

This could be closer to reality than one might think. From 1999-2001 UAL hired about 2000 pilots the mainline. Around the same time CAL also hired 2000, except they weren't to the mainline, they were at XJT, which was then spun off without any resistance from many pilots who don't want "those" kind of pilots on the property. This may be coming back to haunt them. There is a huge whole in the CAL seniority list at that point. I don't see it so far fetched to have an "adjustment" of sorts for this, advantageous to the junior UAL pilots, not so much for the CAL pilots.

Nice to hear from the: don't-mind-throwing-somebody-on-my-own-list-under-the-bus guy. Or maybe that's not what you mean? WTF are you talking about?

 

[silverfish]

What, no love for Cleveland???

Cleveland is the biggest $hitehole of a city. Such a wasteland.

Sorry, I lived there for 2 years and they were the worst of my life.

 

[CRJ's suck]

Cleveland is the biggest $hitehole of a city. Such a wasteland.

Sorry, I lived there for 2 years and they were the worst of my life.

Sounds like you should go out and hang with Joakim Noah. I know you have at least one thing in common, you both hate Cleveland.

I was there last year for about a month and a half of training. And I would have to agree it does suck, but not quite as much as Newark. I spent a few weeks there for training and almost blew my brains out it sucked so much.

 

[thor2j]

This could be closer to reality than one might think. From 1999-2001 UAL hired about 2000 pilots the mainline. Around the same time CAL also hired 2000, except they weren't to the mainline, they were at XJT, which was then spun off without any resistance from many pilots who don't want "those" kind of pilots on the property. This may be coming back to haunt them. There is a huge whole in the CAL seniority list at that point. I don't see it so far fetched to have an "adjustment" of sorts for this, advantageous to the junior UAL pilots, not so much for the CAL pilots.

You have no clue!

 

[waveflyer]

This could be closer to reality than one might think. From 1999-2001 UAL hired about 2000 pilots the mainline. Around the same time CAL also hired 2000, except they weren't to the mainline, they were at XJT, which was then spun off without any resistance from many pilots who don't want "those" kind of pilots on the property. This may be coming back to haunt them. There is a huge whole in the CAL seniority list at that point. I don't see it so far fetched to have an "adjustment" of sorts for this, advantageous to the junior UAL pilots, not so much for the CAL pilots.

What are you saying? That UAL was somehow better than CAL when it comes to outsourcing?

If the OO at the end of your name is bc of skywest- you know that's not remotely true

 

[Shrek]

What, no love for Cleveland???

To quote a phrase........ "Have you ever heard of anybody saying - I am going on a vacation to Cleveland!"

Kidding - there was a time that CLE was an embarassment downtown.....but since they have cleaned up the city and have changed their reputation in a lot of people's eyes. Good people there for sure......

 

[densoo]

You have no clue!

I hope.

 

[eaglesview]

This could be closer to reality than one might think. From 1999-2001 UAL hired about 2000 pilots the mainline. Around the same time CAL also hired 2000, except they weren't to the mainline, they were at XJT, which was then spun off without any resistance from many pilots who don't want "those" kind of pilots on the property. This may be coming back to haunt them. There is a huge whole in the CAL seniority list at that point. I don't see it so far fetched to have an "adjustment" of sorts for this, advantageous to the junior UAL pilots, not so much for the CAL pilots.

As a United guy, believe me this is not the attitude that prevails. Both side will have their coo coo's trying to stir crap up.

 

[densoo]

As a United guy, believe me this is not the attitude that prevails. Both side will have their coo coo's trying to stir crap up.

Not trying to stir it up. Just trying to see what an arbitrator might make of this gaping hiring gap at CAL while UAL hired 2000. That's going to be a difficult part of the list to put together. Apparently, it can get very dynamic in the bottom third. From another thread:

There were 2007 hires at Delta put ahead of 2000 hires at NWA. The arbitrators saw it that way, and that was that.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

This could be closer to reality than one might think. From 1999-2001 UAL hired about 2000 pilots the mainline. Around the same time CAL also hired 2000, except they weren't to the mainline, they were at XJT, which was then spun off without any resistance from many pilots who don't want "those" kind of pilots on the property. This may be coming back to haunt them. There is a huge whole in the CAL seniority list at that point. I don't see it so far fetched to have an "adjustment" of sorts for this, advantageous to the junior UAL pilots, not so much for the CAL pilots.

Nope. It doesn't matter. DL hired 650 in 2007, and they were mixed in with year 2000 hires at NWA in the merge. What were those DL guys doing before 2007? Probably flying at Expressjet or wherever. The arbitrators used the date when the announcement was officially made. Anyone on the list then was mixed in, pretty close to relative seniority. (category and status mixed in there too) Anyone hired after the announcement was placed at the bottom. (some DL pilots) The bottom 650 at Delta represented the bottom 7% of DL, and they again were mixed in with the bottom 7% at NWA, which went to year 2000 hires. I don't see much of an adjustment at all. And, USAir and UAL had talks between the "old" CAL/UAL talks and the current ones, so I doubt you can say you should start way back at the initial balked talks a couple years ago.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Flopgut]

I don't see much of an adjustment at all. And, USAir and UAL had talks between the "old" CAL/UAL talks and the current ones, so I doubt you can say you should start way back at the initial balked talks a couple years ago.

Especially so given CAL formally bowed out.

I'm all for everybody getting the best deal they can, but a furlough can't be expected to placed in front of a working pilot. I understand longevity is a factor in merger policy, but let's not make that a go-to item at this point. UAL ALPA should expect to do some heavy lifting on behalf of their junior pilots and not delve into possible merger policy subterfuge. There is going to be a much different scope clause that prevails than what UAL has right now and that is what they want to leverage a benefit for their junior pilots against.

Every single 50+ seat jet not flown by UAL is in violation of CAL's scope. Park every dam one of them. Or don't do the deal, drop out Star, or make plans to put our pilots from the new airline in them.

 

[Jetjockey]

Relative seniority will prevail. I don't think anyone realistically expects a furloughed guy to come off the street and bump a captain out his seat. While not perfect by all definitions, the DAL/NWA has become the model for SLI.

 

[St. Nic]

Relative seniority will prevail. I don't think anyone realistically expects a furloughed guy to come off the street and bump a captain out his seat. While not perfect by all definitions, the DAL/NWA has become the model for SLI.

Relative to what? The only fair standard is the day you were hired. How does your airline determine which nonrevs get boarded first? DOH. How do you bid for positions on your pilot seniority list? DOH. How do all the ohter unions bid for vacation? DOH. See the pattern?