ual-awac......

[Relic01]

It is unfortunate what is happening at AWAC however there are few rotten apples among the awac pilot group who would like to blame everyone else other than their management. I fly for mesa and yeah, things could be better but we were not the reason you lost your contract. In thesame manner, I don't plan on blaming your pilot group if airways decides to replace us. I do understand that awac management saw an opportunity and bit on it. This industry is unique and things change on a daily basis, be careful what you wish for.

 

[WhiteCloud]

It is unfortunate what is happening at AWAC however there are few rotten apples among the awac pilot group who would like to blame everyone else other than their management. I fly for mesa and yeah, things could be better but we were not the reason you lost your contract. In thesame manner, I don't plan on blaming your pilot group if airways decides to replace us. I do understand that awac management saw an opportunity and bit on it. This industry is unique and things change on a daily basis, be careful what you wish for.

Good post. However, it's pretty universal among the AWAC pilot group that management bears significant blame for placing some level of trust in UAL. Even putting it down in writing doesn't count with UAL.

 

[spitfire1500]

Crashpad.....you're a jackass!!!
P.S. All you guys that bash Mesa, Chataqua, Trans States,....etc about bringing the industry down I got news for ya......... youre all bottom scum bringing the industry down as far as all majors are concerned.

 

[cheezflyer]

BITTER are we?

Wow! Now it looks like there might be some furloughs, now you awac guy's and gals can see what it's like to see your jobs handed over to the lowest bidder. Skywest is a good company and I am sure you will be given priority interviews and start at the bottom, that is something to look forward too!!!!!!!!

Sounds like you have been shafted. Sorry, don't really care. If you want a BOO-Hoo party call the rest of you girlfriends!

 

[cheezflyer]

Free Money

There must be something to it besides pay. SkyWest could increase pay for ALL employees by 20-30% without losing money according to the figures in the 2003 Annual Report (the latest annual report available). What else have you got for ideas? I'm guessing better management.

SO YOU AS PILOT GROUP ARE OK WITH NOT TAKING A (ACCORDING TO YOU) 20-30% PAY INCREASE. THE COMPANY HAS IT TO OFFRER BUT YOU ARE OKAY WITHOUT IT?

 

[cheezflyer]

loser

I still do not understand what you guys did to deserve this. If history is any indication, Air Wisconsin will be back. United dealt them a body blow in the early 90's (stripped the company of their ORD slots, fragged the company and then threw a few crumbs, er, interviews, their way). Any survivors of that experience?

Best of luck to the finest feeder, I mean commuter, no I mean regional, ever. Mark my words, you guys will be back. If you have any money still in the bank, I hope you buy Independance Air.

This guy will not post his experience, but puts down regional(commuters). He probably commutes on a United Express flight home and is mad when asked for his license.

 

[cheezflyer]

What the Hell?

April 22nd. is going to roll around quick, so if you can't beat em, then join em.
You'll want to get your app. in asap, because it will only take one dork to ruin it for you guys (ie:interviewee shoots his mouth off about how AWAC pilots are really pi$$sed at Skywest).
What were you doing to keep the bar raised? ALPA and mgnt. played you big time. The 'boot in the butt strategy' will be used as an example against Mesa and Skywest to set a new standard shortly. We really have'nt seen a new low yet.
Ironically, the fact that Skywest pilots don't have a union probably was the reason they gained so much from this whole scam.

What are you doing with a house? Did you ever think your career with a commuter could reliably support a house and kids. That's just irresponsible. Rent an apartment and use birth control, or get a job with real stability. Yeah, you'll actually have to work, but that's what happens when you don't plan ahead.

Thank goodness this won't effect the senior guys. I hope you all can hang on long enough to get on with a big airline soon and put this experience behind you.

I have a post man and a garbageman I also mow my own lawn. What the HELL are you talking about? And what does it have to do with birth control?DUMBA$$!

 

[cheezflyer]

Wher the hell do you work?

why don't you all include the low cost carriers into your grouping of bottom feeders? USA 3000, southwest, jetblue, spirit, airtran, and indy all basicaly do the samething as the legacy carriers but they make a hell of a lot less. They are the ones partly responsible for this sh!t. You all talk so much smack about bottom feeders, but you all would sell your own first born to work at southwest hell even pay for your own training. Or am I wrong?

Southwest has one of the highest pay scales. I'm sorry you don't feel you should buy the type. I did not either, but I did guess what, My second year I will make more than 6-7 year pay were I am now. And what are you even doing comparing USA300(charter)with everyone else?

 

[cheezflyer]

you are a DUMBA$$

This whole industry is screwed up there's no doubt about that, however, I do have to wonder about some of what ARW does. If ARW had a relationship with UAL and they wanted it to continue and they had 125M to invest in a bankrupt airline........well you get the picture. I'm pretty sure that once ARW bankrolled one of UAL's competitors that it was over for sure, although it may have been over anyway. Maybe if ARW had approached UAL with 125M in investment capital UAL would have looked at things very differently. It's hard to believe that the solution to having problems with UAL is to get into bed with USAirways. They're both bankrupt but UAL has good hubs and an excellent worldwide route network while USAirways is a shell of a company that was mediocre at best even in it's prime. If I were insane and wanted to invest a bunch of cash in a reorganizing airline I would sure bet on UAL before USAirways. Anyway, best of luck to all of the ARW employees and hopefully the new partnership works out well. ARW is just another party on the list of many that UAL has screwed during bankruptcy. I don't know where this industry is headed but it aint good.

You have that much flight time but have no clue?

 

[cheezflyer]

Get your facts straight

Socalplt,

I agree Skywest is better able to secure aircraft financing than others, and this saves a great deal of money when bidding for flying. But to imply by omission that we (SKYW Pilots) are not partly culpable by flying 700's for 200 rates is insulting to many in our profession. We, as a group, foolishly voted in favor of this almost two years ago.



I hate the idea of flying 70's for 50 seat rates. In fact I don't. Fortunately, I'm at a domicile where I haven't been forced to. (For those that don't know ORD and SMF have been forced to get the differences training.) I voted against the last pay package because of this, and the one before it for not raising new hire pay. I'll also vote against the next one if it is for only 1%.

I'm not sure what AWACs pay rates are, however I remember seeing something on the order of $67/hr for the 70 and $61/hr. for the 50 at year six versus $65.25 for SkyWest. I'm sure the difference is greater for the year 18 guys. If the new pay package passes with a 1% increase and we average a 6% margin for the profit sharing, my hourly rate will average out to $69.85. Based on this I can't see how our rate for flying the seventy is the primary reason AWAC is losing the flying.

I make just below 66 dollars as a 6 year captain @ AWAC. What is your minimum overnight,duty rig,trip rig, minimum days off a month, is pay block or better or only block?

 

[cheezflyer]

moron

D Sanchez,

I think this sums up my point! Just be careful, when you displace USAir flying, do you want to be told that your company bought your job? I'm sure the answer is NO. All I am saying is that the Skywest pilots are not to blame. This is a UAL and AWAC management issue. The pay is too close to use as a blame game. Now if Skywest flew at MESA rates, that would be something to talk about. Skywest 50/70 rates are higher than their 70 rates alone. Then add on bonuses, work rules etc, Skywest actually exceed the 90 rates! Let us also take per diem. AWAC is 1.40 and Skywest is 1.60, if you do the math, that works out to be about another $1 per hour of pay. The rates are so close, I wouldn't use pilot pay as the issue here. I would blame the innability of management to adapt from a antiquated business model. But if blaming Skywest for a same rate scenerio is what helps you sleep at night, then let it be. Everyone has an opinion. Once again, I sincerely hope everything works for you at AWAC. You never know what the future holds, this could easily be a blessing in disguise.

And for the record, an ALPA union drive will be starting at Skywest as soon as it can legally happen. I hope that the pilot group sees this as an valuable time to organize...

Yogi

How does a 1.40-1.60=$1.00 more an hour?

 

[BE99chick]

Thanks for all the kind comments about the AWAC pilots.

Yeah, it's going to be tough for us for awhile, but...(and I'm going out on a limb here)...I think it will eventually be OK for us. Just my gut instinct and it's been pretty accurate over the years.

There's been a lot of bashing of different pilot groups on this thread (and I've bashed a few over the years too). But I can tell you this, I've commuted on Mesa, SkyWest, TSA and some majors for a lot of years, and with maybe one or two standout exceptions (both UAL Captains, but I found out during the flight they were both in the middle of a nasty divorce)...everyone has been tremendously kind and nice to me.

Most pilots out there are 100% professional, decent, hardworking folks just trying to get by. This IS the best job in the world, it just happens to be in the SH!TTIEST industry. I knew that when I got into this, so I have no room to b!tch.

I'm not going to be mean to that Mesa guy on the crew bus or that SkyWest Captain based in Denver complaining because he has to commute to California when I'll never see a Denver base. I'm just not...end of story. I'm done with being nasty to other folks because of some perceived injustice. I knew what this industry was all about when I started.

AND, consequently, I'm also not going to vote FOR a crappy wage scale on larger aircraft and let management use me for a doormat. I'll get out before I'll do that because I have something to fall back on. Guess I'm just lucky.

Thanks again all...it's nice to see the kind comments. I'm not insulted by the bad ones, because I understand those too.

 

[crashpad]

(golf clapping, parental smiles, tears of pride...and a leg-lifting oily waiffer from yours truely)

Magnanimus Beechchick!!! That really needed to be said, because prior to this we all thought you schmoozed your way to the bottom on the affirmative action tuna train.
Now, go back to the kiddie table with Spudflinger, CheddarChimp and the tough-guy who wants me to visit his trailer park.

 

[XJslave]

Thanks for all the kind comments about the AWAC pilots.

AND, consequently, I'm also not going to vote FOR a crappy wage scale on larger aircraft and let management use me for a doormat. I'll get out before I'll do that because I have something to fall back on. Guess I'm just lucky.

Thanks again all...it's nice to see the kind comments. I'm not insulted by the bad ones, because I understand those too.

It needs to go much farther than that. Our concessions were based on flying for united. It's time to get our old contract back, with back pay. If the union won't do anything about it. Then It's time the pilots File a class action lawsuit. AWAC made 100 million in profit in the 4 quarters after the concessions, and had 125 million to invest in USair. They didn't need the money from us, it's time to get it back.

 

[BE99chick]

Crashpad...you are so funny!!!!

Love you baby!!!!

 

[crashpad]

Whoa, did'nt see that coming. Just like Emiral, "Bam!"
I feel like a ten pin standing in front of Don Carter (only true cheddar-heads know how disturbing that is).
How do I respond to this? Can I have my testosterone back, please?

 

[Morning Wood]

fam,

A little history is in order here, just for perspective. AWAC was the last airline to gain it's operating certificate prior to deregulation. Back then it was a long and tedious (not to mention political) process. The same process that United, American, Braniff, and Eastern had to go through to get their routes awarded. AWAC operated independently with their own routes until 1984 when they pioneered the code-share process with UAL that has become common in our industry. They were still independently owned and flew under their own colors.

In 1991 ARW was the third largest operator out of ORD behind UAL and AMR. UAL bought ARW for their ORD landing slots and ran the company into bankruptcy. It was broken apart into several pieces, one of which became ACA which is now Independence Air. Another became what now remains of the old Air Wisconsin (18 146's). Meanwhile, UAL took all of the ARW slots and routes and made them their own. They farmed what they didn't want back to ARW and newly formed UFS. ARW was eventually sold to independent investors and merged with Aspen Airways/MAX Air. We then purchased the 70 RJ's we currently have to operate for UAL.

So in fact, UAL flies routes that were once flown by AWAC, not the other way around. UAL/ALPA had the chance to merge ARW and avoid all this so call "bottom feeder" type flying. Instead they chose to implement a scope clause and farm out the RJ size aircraft to contract operators. The genie was out of the bottle.

I agree that everyone makes their own choices about how and when to gain the neccessary experience to move up in this industry. However, what I don't agree with is entire pilot groups willing to sell out in order to provide their management with a competitive edge over a rival airline.

Unfortunately, AWAC has become the latest victim of this process.

Hey jrod....can you tell me some of the details/history of the DASH 8's?
I seem to recall AWAC flying them back in the early 90's and then
they were gone. Before the D328's replaced the UFS flying, what was
AWAC flying?

 

[g159av8tor]

Reference all the above posts...

I'm was happy for the three years I flew in the airlines. I did it all and experienced the roller coaster. I flew "airliners", upgraded to Captain, had a hellava lot of fun and made a few life-long friends.

I'll take my current flying for a Fortune 250 company any day as a career rather than experience all the BS I did in the airlines. It's a tough job on our family and our friends. Why we do it for all that we put up with is beyond me.

Sorry AWAC...tailwinds always.

 

[Morning Wood]

Whoa, did'nt see that coming. Just like Emiral, "Bam!"
I feel like a ten pin standing in front of Don Carter (only true cheddar-heads know how disturbing that is).
How do I respond to this? Can I have my testosterone back, please?

That's funny. Do you remember the Miller Lite commerical Don Carter did
back in the 70's where he tore the top off the beer can like the big
football guys did?

 

[g159av8tor]

R U New???

Let us also take per diem. AWAC is 1.40 and Skywest is 1.60, if you do the math, that works out to be about another $1 per hour of pay. The rates are so close, I wouldn't use pilot pay as the issue here.

Yogi

Yogi,

Are you serious that you include per diem as income? Are you just cheap? Because a buck sixty is nothing to brag about. It's actually really embarrassing and pathetic. You don't even get the government IRS rate. Last time I checked, my employer pays me per diem to eat well and healthy while I'm out of domicile. Your mentality is "regional" at best. I guess I'm paid well enough as a professional pilot not to include per diem in my earnings. I live well and I can afford things and stuff not including my per diem as income. Really, I try to spend it all on the road to eat well. What I don't spend, however, my girlfriend spends on shoes. So, whatever. Congratulations on the buck sixty an hour...tailwinds.