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Type A and Type B RNAV Arrivals

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Capthuff said:
with the GNS do you still file /L and just decline the DP or STAR if assigned?
Don't do that, you'll screw up the flow. In the remarks section of the flight plan, put "no SIDS no STARS". That way, you wont get assigned one in the 1st lace and things go much smoother for ATC. ATC will assume, and rightfully so, that you are STAR/SID capable unless you note otherwise. Don't wait until after the fact to let them know you in fact are not.
 
HawkerF/O said:
Don't do that, you'll screw up the flow. In the remarks section of the flight plan, put "no SIDS no STARS". That way, you wont get assigned one in the 1st lace and things go much smoother for ATC. ATC will assume, and rightfully so, that you are STAR/SID capable unless you note otherwise. Don't wait until after the fact to let them know you in fact are not.
That's not quite correct either, you just can't accept the Class A & B procedures. You are capable of accepting and flying the others.

'Sled
 
Capthuff said:
We are looking at selling our 31 and getting an Ultra. One of the concerns is of course how this A-C affects our operation as most of the Ultras have the GNS box.
So, Sled, master of all things regulatory, with the GNS do you still file /L and just decline the DP or STAR if assigned?

Also if anyone has an Ultra they want to sell please let me know.
And if you are looking for a LR 31 - PM me

Same here, we going to fix ours by getting rid of the Beechjet and buy a Lear 45XR
 
Lead Sled said:
That's not quite correct either, you just can't accept the Class A & B procedures. You are capable of accepting and flying the others.

'Sled
I disagree. It's like CDRs. You might have 1 you would like to use and and are famaliar with, but not the others, but if you say you can accept it, you are saying you are capable of accepting any of them at the ATC's discretion. Putting "No Sids/No Stars" in the remarks section is going to save you and ATC a lot of miscommunication. Another option would be filing /K if you are RVSM and /F if you are not RVSM. I think this is an area that needs to be addressed on the NBAA forum in greater detail as there is typically more of a professional crowd over there instead of some of the trolls that you have here. Those guys would probably have a definitive answer, but who knows, maybe not. I know it was discussed there in great detail about a month ago, but I did not follow it like I should have.
 
HawkerF/O said:
Putting "No Sids/No Stars" in the remarks section is going to save you and ATC a lot of miscommunication.
Our jet has Globals. We file /L, we don't put anything regarding Sids/Stars in the remarks section. Haven't had a single problem with ATC. Fortunately, we're getting rid of the Globals soon.
 
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HMR said:
I was trying to follow the discussion on NBAA. There still seems to be some confusion (I know I don't completely understand it). Our jet has Globals. We file /L, we don't put anything regarding Sids/Stars in the remarks section. Haven't had a single problem with ATC.
ATC will assign you the SID/STAR all day long. What I was trying to say is that if you are not legal to fly the SID/STAR because of your FMS, ATC does not know that. By telling them no sids/star, they will not assign you any SID or STar. If the pilot accepts a procedure he/she is not legal to fly, then flies that procedure, it is on the pilot, not ATC. I think the FAA will say that No SIDs/STARs should have been put in the remarks section. Just my opinion and it is what I would do.
 
HawkerF/O said:
ATC will assign you the SID/STAR all day long. What I was trying to say is that if you are not legal to fly the SID/STAR because of your FMS, ATC does not know that. By telling them no sids/star, they will not assign you any SID or STar. If the pilot accepts a procedure he/she is not legal to fly, then flies that procedure, it is on the pilot, not ATC. I think the FAA will say that No SIDs/STARs should have been put in the remarks section. Just my opinion and it is what I would do.
But you ARE legal to fly SIDS/STARS with the GNS. 90% of the SIDS and STARS are still ground based nav, you can fly those. It's only the type A or B RNAV SIDS/STARS that you can't accept.

So the better solution would be to write in remarks "UNABLE RNAV SID/STAR".

FWIW, I find that there is generally better information available here than on the NBAA board. Granted there's a couple of excellent posters (Keith Gordon), but there's a lot of blowhards too.
 
NO SIDS/NO STARs is a bit drastic. As has been stated before there are a number of procedures that are not Type A or B.
 
I have been told straight from the folks at Universal that the GNS XL'es are not Type A or Type B compliant.

I like the idea of stating in the remarks "Unable RNAV SID/STAR." I'm wondering if the ATC world is aware of this stuff and will understand that memo in the remarks section. Anyone know this for sure?
 

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