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Twin Comanche

scottn2flying

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Any thoughts on using a twin comanche "PA-30" for a trainer? Especially one that only has brakes on the left side.
 

viper548

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I think a PA-30 would make a good trainer but I don't like the idea of not having brakes on the right side.
 

Flyin Tony

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You dont need brakes to begin with. With a TwinCO for training, insurance is going to kill you.
 

scottn2flying

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That's probably one reason why the insurance company for the flight school is requiring me to have 25 hours in type. Luckly, I'm getting those hours for just fuel and with a comanche that's only about 16 gph.
 

minitour

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scottn2flying said:
That's probably one reason why the insurance company for the flight school is requiring me to have 25 hours in type. Luckly, I'm getting those hours for just fuel and with a comanche that's only about 16 gph.

Excellent deal man!
 

Steveair

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Brakes on the left only is a little risky. Just do your cuts on a nice wide runway, at low speed, and be ready to cut the mixtures, and hope to hell you can over power your student on the rudders.
 

FlyingToIST

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I love these airplanes, they are economical, they provide best bang for the buck and they are easy to fly. A lot of airplanes in that year timeframe didn't have brakes on the right side. The person who will come to you will have some experience flying airplanes, so I wouldnt worry about it too much.

The notion of not having counter rotating props is a bit scary, but if you keep both eyes on the student during simulated engine failures , you'll be fine. (You said PA30 , not PA39. Piper decided to put the CR versions on a different type certificate )

Have fun flying it..
 
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Be careful in you VMC demos, they can get out of hand in that airplane, also those VGs and stall strip bars are very important in taming the airplane during the VMC roll. I think they were a later AD after a few spun in the ground. It should have two strips on the right wing and one on the left. We used it as a trainer and had bad results. It's just not a trainer bird. I do remember it having a good economical range on it though.
 

ackattacker

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I had responded but my post was lost in the flightinfo crash. I've given a lot of dual in the PA30. I thought it was a good trainer, but I've always been of the opinion that a trainer shouldn't have training wheels. If you get your multi in a dumbed down "safe" twin then you'll be dangerous in a "real" twin.

I've also done hundreds of Vmc demos in the PA30 and never scared myself. But as I posted before, beware of your students trying to maintain heading with bank. They will try to kill you. Wings level is the way to go. You might get away with it in a Seneca or Duchess but not in the twinkie. When the PA30 stalls, it really stalls and if you are single-engine you will spin. Also, if you stall it over the runway you will land very hard. It lands like a Mooney, there's a very narrow airspeed window for touchdown.

PA30's have a stall light but no horn. So watch it.
 

Onlyflyfreight

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I got my MEI in it and I taught in it.

I'd take the student up for some pattern work on the first lesson to evaluate his/her basic landing/take off skills. Obviously a thorough take off brief on those issues is a must.

ackattacker said:
If you get your multi in a dumbed down "safe" twin then you'll be dangerous in a "real" twin.

I flew the Seminole and the twin Comanche my first few hundred hours.

Then I went straight into the BE58, PA31 and Aerostar all at the same time, I did fine.
It’s important to realize when you fly airplanes with more than one engine and retractable gear that the check out is going to be a little more complex than what you are used to from your single engine, fixed gear days.
These airplanes are very different from each other (and most likely from what you have been used to up to this point) and are fully capable of KILLING you. The PA30 has a somewhat unique emergency gear extension, the Baron has so much power on one engine that single engine taxi is impossible. The Aerostar will NOT rotate/fly by it self, a firm pull on the elevator is required, the airplane will keep accelerating until you run out of runway. The PA31 is turbo charged (a study in it self), but will NOT hold altitude at gross weight (in cruise) on one engine.

Just be careful, don’t get too “creative” with the training failures.

It’s a sweet airplane and even if it is a dumbed down "safe" twin it does the job.

GL,
 

Big Dog

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It's a great airplane to fly and train in so long as you don't have to maintain it. Most are older and have old airplane problems like major structure cracking (landing gear) and limited parts availability. Many have been rode hard and put away wet in training ops. Did my MEI in one, had fun but the A/C was down for 4 months before I could start.
 

ackattacker

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Onlyflyfreight said:


It’s a sweet airplane and even if it is a dumbed down "safe" twin it does the job.

GL,

I think you misunderestimated me. I meant that the TwinCo is not a "dumbed down" twin like those with C/R props and go-slow airfoils. That's why I think its a good trainer...

Ralgha said:
I flew one with a horn.

Didn't know they made them that way. Learn something new every day. The two I flew had lights.
 

casper1nine

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don't feel pressure to rush your students through what is usually an easy add on. it is totally okay to tailor your training program to both the student and the airplane, and if it takes a few more hours to do RIGHT, then there is nothing WRONG with that! it is your butt that is on the line... in the airplane.... and liability wise later. have fun being am mei and moving into new areas of aviation. best regards. -casper
 

scottn2flying

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Thanks for all the great advice, now i've got a few more questions.
I've looked everywhere and can't seem to find the answers.
1. What is the exact purpose of the 2 stall strips on the right wing and only 1 on the left?
2. Should I perform slow flight below Vmc or at Vmc, or what are your thoughts on that?
3. What are the procedures for short field t/o and ldgs?
Also, anything else you can give me reguarding my checkride or just general comanche knowledge would be great
 

jafo20

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I did my multi-engine training in a twin-comanche. We didn't have counter rotating props, but the instructor felt comfortable taking his students through the full performance envelope of the aircraft. The airplane was pretty nice to fly, overall.

sidenote:

Is C.R. still instructing out of IKK?
 

skychicken

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ackattacker said:
I had responded but my post was lost in the flightinfo crash. I've given a lot of dual in the PA30. I thought it was a good trainer, but I've always been of the opinion that a trainer shouldn't have training wheels. If you get your multi in a dumbed down "safe" twin then you'll be dangerous in a "real" twin.

I've also done hundreds of Vmc demos in the PA30 and never scared myself. But as I posted before, beware of your students trying to maintain heading with bank. They will try to kill you. Wings level is the way to go. You might get away with it in a Seneca or Duchess but not in the twinkie. When the PA30 stalls, it really stalls and if you are single-engine you will spin. Also, if you stall it over the runway you will land very hard. It lands like a Mooney, there's a very narrow airspeed window for touchdown.

PA30's have a stall light but no horn. So watch it.

Another thing to watch with them is that some have extended prop sharfts and if you do stalls with full power you can rip the props off. Like everyone says, Its a great airplane and I did all my training in one and also taught in one for a while just be CAREFUL!!
 

Lead Sled

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> enuf
skychicken said:
Another thing to watch with them is that some have extended prop shafts and if you do stalls with full power you can rip the props off.
Ah come on, you're joshing us. Who told you that?

'Sled
 
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