TWA Still Kickin'

[G4G5]

so g4g5 are you a 69'er or a 31'er?

Hi Bob,

A 31%er without a doubt.

 

[steveg]

G whatever,

Feel better? Obviously I struck some cords. Perhaps it's you who needs to get over himself. You seem very angry now that you are forced to realize that just because you are an aa pilot, the sun doesn't set on you.

I'm much happier now that I am away from aa and the great sense of entitlement that apparently goes with being an aa pilot. You are right about one thing, we would all have been better off never having had any thing to do with amr. My life is 100% better, I hope the same for you.

Another thing is for sure. If aa had not bought TWA, you would have been furloughed a couple of years ago. We would have both been on the street. You ever think about telling a TWA pilot you are glad they were here, so you could collect your precious aa check while they got axed first?

I thought not.

Good luck with your new job. I hope you can find a balance, and learn to handle difficulty in some way other than blaming TWA for everything.

 

[G4G5]

I am not blaming TWA for anything, and I don't see all that many of the folks I fly with blaming TWA, the economy, 9/11, SARS, or the war for their current mis fortunes.

What I do see is a lot of TWA folks blaming AA for 20+ year of mis management, Carl, 3 bk's, the economy, yada yada. To the point where we now have to listen to Hearings again(yes, 2+ years after the fact) on the aquisition.

That was my point let it rest. I am not sorry that I am getting furloughed. I am not sorry that I turned down B6 to go to AA. That's life you move on.

I am happy to have found a great job and can turn the page saying been there, done that, got the uniform.

As far as the TWA folks saving my job. I will grant you that, for a lot of folks they were able to get a pay check for a lot longer. Thanks.

But for the approx 450 AA pilots that were hired after 4/11/01, who were hired and placed behind the aquired. You may want to thank them because every TWA FO hired (even the 23 year old with 2 weeks of seniority) will get recalled back to AA before they do. Or all of the 400+ Eagle pilots(most of which has 10+ years of service to AMR) who will now have to wait untill every TWA fo has a job before they can excerise their flow through numbers.

See it's a two way street but if you don't look in the rear view mirror then the ride is a whole lot smoother.

 

[TWA Dude]

G4G5,

Sorry you're getting the axe too. Just curious, if you'd stayed at Delta would you have already been furloughed? (or NW, for that matter?)

 

[yaks]

TWA still kickin

Whatever happened to the Ozark pilots? (Just can't resist.)

 

[G4G5]

G4G5,

Sorry you're getting the axe too. Just curious, if you'd stayed at Delta would you have already been furloughed? (or NW, for that matter?)

Thanks, getting axed sucks. My number isn't up until Nov. but I have been looking for a while and came across something pretty good so I am taking a POL until the axe falls.

Yep I would have been F'ed at NWA and DAL. Crazy profession. Not sure if I am going to turn down a descent Gulfstream job to come back. I made that mistake once already.

Like I said a few posts above, thanks. I am one of the guys who was able to hang on a year or so longer because of the TWA aquisition. I didn't plan it that way but I am sure you didn't plan on things working out like they did either. Good luck.

 

[G4G5]

Bob,
I could not agree with you more about the union. They are pathetic especially the 69% that voted for this POS. Their is no unity and their won't be for quite some time but to think that it has anything to to do with the TWA pilots is absurd

Once the furloughs stop how many TWA pilots will be left on the list. Approx 500? Out of 9000 remaining. 6% of the total pilot staffing, stuck flying in STL. Hardly a force that would create any of the unitly problems that you mention. How many will be left once the recalls start, IMHO 3-4%, maybe. Nope we are screwed up all on our own. Just because you guys are pissed at us isn't going to stop us from ever becoming unified. Nope it's going to take a majority of those 69% to wake up and smell the coffee, apparently they don't brew much coffee in DCA and DFW, more like kool aid if you ask me.

Yep the B6 thing would have probably been the better choice but I don't have the personal make up to take a job knowing that I would be sitting in the same seat, with no career progession, only flying domestic, in the same aircraft type for the next 25 years. It's just not my cup of tea but don't get me wrong, for a lot of people it's going to be one heck of a good cup of tea.

You can piss and moan about the intergration all you want. It's NEVER going to change. Take a look at what the the DAL pilots gave the Pan Am pilots. I rest my case. The APA hired the best lawyers my dues could buy and the came up with an intergration that is court test and ALPA approved.

I would not put much creedance into the rumors you hear about AA guys having a tuff time finding work. I have heard exactly the opposite but again rumors are rumors. I know if my new company needs another pilot I will be going out of my way to help out an AA or TWA guy.

 

[Pilotbob3]

Bob,
I could not agree with you more about the union. They are pathetic especially the 69% that voted for this POS. Their is no unity and their won't be for quite some time but to think that it has anything to to do with the TWA pilots is absurd

Once the furloughs stop how many TWA pilots will be left on the list. Approx 500? Out of 9000 remaining. 6% of the total pilot staffing, stuck flying in STL. Hardly a force that would create any of the unitly problems that you mention. How many will be left once the recalls start, IMHO 3-4%, maybe. Nope we are screwed up all on our own. Just because you guys are pissed at us isn't going to stop us from ever becoming unified. Nope it's going to take a majority of those 69% to wake up and smell the coffee, apparently they don't brew much coffee in DCA and DFW, more like kool aid if you ask me.

Yep the B6 thing would have probably been the better choice but I don't have the personal make up to take a job knowing that I would be sitting in the same seat, with no career progession, only flying domestic, in the same aircraft type for the next 25 years. It's just not my cup of tea but don't get me wrong, for a lot of people it's going to be one heck of a good cup of tea.

You can piss and moan about the intergration all you want. It's NEVER going to change. Take a look at what the the DAL pilots gave the Pan Am pilots. I rest my case. The APA hired the best lawyers my dues could buy and the came up with an intergration that is court test and ALPA approved.

I would not put much creedance into the rumors you hear about AA guys having a tuff time finding work. I have heard exactly the opposite but again rumors are rumors. I know if my new company needs another pilot I will be going out of my way to help out an AA or TWA guy.

well yes the TWA pilots are part of the disunity a major part.!! you can't say we don't count because we do........you have a lot of nonmembers as well as the members who don't feel any unity...i believe there are about 1,000 members and 1,000 nonmembers....give or take a few since there were 2,301 of us total......no matter what is left now, we will be coming back one day and it is a larger than you want percentage of "disunity" for
sure! but today the majority of the disunity is of those 69% !!! im sure the 69% if given the chance to vote again would be down below 50% . you cannot be unified if you have all those nonmembers! you cannot write off the TWA pilots as not having anything to do with unity. we do count and it is showing. the company sure sees it as a unity problem....the company is laughing all the way. they love it! you know it is killing the apa that they lost well over 3 million dollars in dues from nonmembers the last 2 years!!!!! yea i know agency shop will come in play but they wont get that lost money...and you will still have the nonmembers anyway even if they are paying a "service" fee.

as far as the seniority list NEVER changing.....not sure if you heard about the People Express guys getting their seniority back at Continental after 5 years in court....NEVER say NEVER!!

nice to hear you would help out anyone...i would too ...but the people in charge at some companies won't......i have never heard of a TWA guy getting turned down for a job because how they got screwed! LOL

 

[Clownpilot]

Lil angry are we Bob???????

Try venting your anger in a constructive way please.

Because of TWA I'm now stuck flying the 767 in St Louis til they bring you back. Guess I'll hold up your end til then, should it ever actually happen.


Of course since it will take well over a year to even furlough the rest of the guys, you have an incredibly long wait in front of you.
5 years for you at least.

My advice is to get out of aviation. You don't have the temperment for it.

g4g5....

there is no way that you are not sorry you got furloughed....who wouldn't be? and if you had the crystal ball you would have gone to B6 im sure! again who wouldn't......actually i would have gone to Delta!!!!!!

its too bad that greed over took the apa and its member pilots when it came time to merge the TWA and AA seniority list. AMR gave apa the rope on which to hang themselves...and are loving watching the apa fall apart.....there will never be any "unity" at apa again...especially after this awful contract. no balls left there....my buddy at delta 5th year md 80 pay is now up to 132/hr i believe.....about 81/hr at AA what a joke.....the joke was hearing Ed white get laughed at at the senate hearings last week...that was funny!!!

AMR is busting the union and you guys let it happen with the merging of the TWA list to start...a little more humane approach to the whole thing would have made a lot of difference. why do you think there were senate hearings the other day? sick of hearing about it???? too bad!!! you will never hear the end of it......you made the bed now you must lie in it....or change it for the better...it can still be done.......that would send a great message to the company!!! do it right or have the courts order you to.....what goes around comes around and you will find that most nAAtive guys aren't going to get the jobs because of what you guys did to the TWA guys....the word is out at many HR departments and that is a fact. thats just the way it is ....neither you or I have any control over it now....unless you can talk the apa into revisiting the seniority list.......

 

[Clownpilot]

Too funny

I love you guys so blinded by grief you cant even think straight.

All the good jobs taken and AA guys throwing gear for TWA furloughees..........??????? Welcome to Fantasyland.

Why do I get the distinct impression that you live this fantasy every day as your only way to deal with your situation? Does thinking that help you deal with your anger??

Ever dream it at night only to wake up and realize it ain't real??

Reality would be better for you Walter Mitty........

If you are really this bad off then see a psychiatrist.

G4G5

You are a piece of S!@t Enough said!

The good thing about all of this is that when true AA pukes start getting furloughed the good jobs will already be taken and if they are LUCKY enough to find something, chances are they will have to swing gear for a TWA'ers. Bummer

 

[Neubyfly]

Re: TWA still kickin

Whatever happened to the Ozark pilots? (Just can't resist.)

They got Date of Hire when acquired by TWA.

 

[G4G5]

And what were the restrictions? Any of the Oz Captains lose any of their seats? Tell us about the fences?

Bob, if you think that some wana be start up like peoples will be compared to TWA for intergration purposes. You keep thinking that. My guess is that the DAL/Pan Am, ALPA/ALPA would most likly be the one that a jury would consider the closest.

 

[AceCrackshot]

Interesting you should bring up Krazo...I spent the better part of the last three weeks with a number of retired TW/Krazo and TW pilots and their feeling was that as bitter as they were at the time, the Krazo/TW merger was model of fairness compared with TW/AA.

And Clownpilot, ad hominum attacks only demonstrate the prima facie emptyness of your argument, IMHO.

Regards

 

[AAflyer]

G4G5,

Sorry to hear about the furlough, I feel for ALL you guys getting furloughed. It would have been nice if things had been diffrerent.
Record profits, record aircaft orders, and record hiring, Hell we all might be captains by now, including the TWA boys and gals.

Did they get the short end of stick, without a doubt. Would I have been pissed about the integration if I were over there, sure would. Would I have taken the same action as many of them? Probably. This biz is mean, and does not take prisoners.

Do I feel safe here, not in a million years, do I feel arrogant, NO!

Not hiring a furloughed AA pilot beacuse of what happened to TWA, wow talk about petty.

Unity is gone, and I have no idea when it will be back, or if it will!

Good luck to ALL furloughed AA pilots regardless of what uniform you wore 3 years ago.

AAflyer,

P.S. Clownpilot, I am a little confused at how you were FORCED into SLT? I am junior to you and could have held onto the 767/FO/I out of LGA, although it would have been a few numbers from the bottom. How much do you want to bet that your name shows up on the Preference list to goto SLT? Things that make you go HHMMMMMMM. I don't agree with some ofthe actions of the TWA guys and gals, but don't bid into SLT and blame them.

 

[Pilotbob3]

Re: Lil angry are we Bob???????

Try venting your anger in a constructive way please.

Because of TWA I'm now stuck flying the 767 in St Louis til they bring you back. Guess I'll hold up your end til then, should it ever actually happen.


Of course since it will take well over a year to even furlough the rest of the guys, you have an incredibly long wait in front of you.
5 years for you at least.

My advice is to get out of aviation. You don't have the temperment for it.

LOL,

how much more constructive can one get? plus there is no anger here....i am just stating the facts. i know you guys don't like hearing the truth.....

stuck? i see that you must have bid to be in SLT/STL in my seat in a 767 at STL...no sympathy here. you gotta be kidding. so you must have had that in your preferences huh?! BUSTED! LOL

people laugh at clowns