TWA Still Kickin'

[Counselair]

I'm still bored...

Maybe one more good stir...from the grassy knoll.

Precedence???

Reuters
UPDATE - Air Canada to shuffle pilot seniority lists
Tuesday June 17, 1:30 pm ET
By Charles Grandmont


(Adds details, background, quotes)
MONTREAL, June 17 (Reuters) - Air Canada (Toronto:AC.TO - News) said on Tuesday it will implement a labor board ruling on pilots' seniority lists, even though the change is angering pilots who have already been asked to accept pay and job cuts to keep the insolvent airline aloft.


"Air Canada wants to stay neutral because it's an issue relating to union seniority, it's not Air Canada's responsibility," company spokeswoman Isabelle Arthur said.

The Canadian Industrial Relations Board gave Air Canada until Wednesday night to shuffle its seniority lists, which have been contested since the carrier's takeover of floundering rival Canadian Airlines three years ago.

The divisive ruling comes as Air Canada's 3,400 pilots are set to begin voting this week on a cost-cutting deal central to the airline's restructuring.

"We are actively encouraging our pilots to keep the two issues separated. Without an airline, there is not going to be a seniority list to worry about," David Coles, head of a committee representing pilots who flew with Air Canada before the merger with Canadian.

The seniority lists are crucial for pilots as they determine their pay and the type of aircraft they fly. Air Canada pilots say they will be unfairly bumped down the list by former Canadian Airlines pilots, who are generally older.

About a third of Air Canada's 3,400 pilots previously flew with Canadian, and they contested an earlier ruling on seniority lists, which they felt was unfair.

The latest ruling, handed down on Monday, was rejected by the original Air Canada pilots as having tipped the balance the other way. They are now seeking a way to overturn it, even though both pilots groups had agreed to accept the ruling as final.

"We will use whatever legal avenues we have available," Coles said.

The seniority issue could also determine which pilots stand to lose their jobs once Air Canada goes ahead with plans to retire some older and larger aircraft to reduce costs.

Air Canada has given all its unions until the end of the month to agree to labor cost reductions totaling C$1.1 billion ($820 million). The airline is losing C$5 million a day and the court-appointed monitor has warned the company could run out of money before it completes its restructuring.
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[TWA Dude]

Well, how old was OZ at the time of purchase? If the senior person was only 10 years and a majority of the pilots were 5 or less DOH does not do much to the seniority list of the aquiring company.

Ozark began in 1950, making it a 36-year old airline when acquired by TWA.

-----------------

Neubyfly:

My intent wasn't to get into any direct comparison of the OZ merger vs. our own, but to lament the fact that "fairness" never enters into the picture in corporate mergers. Of course if TWA had gotten an OZ-equivelant integration I'd still have my job (I'm a '99 hire). The acquiring carrier has a history of not showing much respect for the acquired and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

 

[AAflyer]

TWAdude,

Thanks for the information, I thought for some reason there were many junior pilots at OZ.

AA

 

[Clownpilot]

How did we save TWA ?????

Look at the records.

In April of 2001 TWA ran out of money.

Fact: They couldn't borrow it. They were so tapped out they had approached every available lender and been turned down. Compton stated as such openly in a press release and in court shortly after. You guys are pure liars to say otherwise.

Fact: Gas prices rose considerably.

Fact: They couldnt pay a $200 million debt payment that was owed.

Fact: Compton called Carty and offered a deal.

Fact: Carty agreed only if he could vacate karabu and several other agreements that were killing the bottom line.

Fact: Bankruptcy was the only way to negate these contracts.

Fact: TWA was going THAT DAY into Chapter 7 without an IMMEDIATE PAYMENT OF $200 MILLION BY AMR....which they did in fact pay at that time. (TWA pilots have NO recollection of this, quite conveniently)

Fact: TWA guys cheered this because they KNEW they were on the street without it.

Fact: TWA liars know full well they were saved and are only denying it because they feel that they can get something more from some sympathetic Senatorial BS by distorting the facts.

TWA pukes never want to discuss the actual facts of what happened. Simply because what they agreed to they don't want to honor. They are liars and cheats.

The TWA pilot group is a bunch of bottom feeders who want to steal from others and deny the truth.

I'm sick of it.

TWA LLC should be sold outright to solve this mess (Robert Crandall in a March interview). And he's right.

End of story.

Hey, Clown,

Please explain for the dumb kids in the audience how exactly you "saved" TW? Just curious. Or how by loudly pronouncing during BK proceedings how AA was going "save the jobs" of TW employees your organization cut other bidders out of the pattern at court. Only to renege on that promise. Explain. Remember, little words, I'm not that bright.

 

[G4G5]

Of course the OZ/TWA merger was unfair. The TWA guys used their leverage as the acquiring carrier to their advantage. I don't mean this as a slam but as simple statement of how the world works. The APA acted similarly but in this case there are far more layoffs. Further complicating matters was ALPA National selling out the TWA guys.

I'm one of the few guys who outwardly agrees with much of what Bob H writes, especially given my juniority. He is not an "I've got mine" kind of guy as his detractors label him. Many of those detractors have trouble dealing with their anger and take it out on anybody who disagrees with them.

I agree with you about the OZ intergration and about Bob H.

While I don't know him personally I have corresponded with him on a variety of topics. Each time I found his information to be correct.

 

[AceCrackshot]

Pukes and bottom feeders, eh? Speaking of bankrupt, sounds like your argument.

Seriously, Clown, you appear to be a former Naval Officer by your profile. Try acting like it, really.

Arguing with you isn't worth my time.

 

[Clownpilot]

Don't get your panties all in a wad.

And quit crying all over my new overalls gomer.

Bottom feeder and puke was me BEING NICE.

Pukes and bottom feeders, eh? Speaking of bankrupt, sounds like your argument.

Seriously, Clown, you appear to be a former Naval Officer by your profile. Try acting like it, really.

Arguing with you isn't worth my time.

 

[yaks]

TWA still kickin

Clown,

Notice how crack didn't address your post, just bitched. That says it all.