TWA Still Kickin'

[Pilotbob3]

And what were the restrictions? Any of the Oz Captains lose any of their seats? Tell us about the fences?

Bob, if you think that some wana be start up like peoples will be compared to TWA for intergration purposes. You keep thinking that. My guess is that the DAL/Pan Am, ALPA/ALPA would most likly be the one that a jury would consider the closest.

funny that is what nAAtives say when i mention the peoples thing...they don't like hearing that part....a start up? with 747's.

 

[yaks]

TWA still kickin

According to a former OZ pilot they got stapled.

 

[Pilotbob3]

Re: TWA still kickin

According to a former OZ pilot they got stapled.

thats bullsheet!! either you are lying or the former OZ pilot is lying!

OZ pilots got Date Of Hire with the merge at TWA in 1986. just look at thier ID's.

 

[Clownpilot]

Indeed

Well you're quite right RA as you well know.

I bid the place that I could hold the best.

I was only "forced" in the sense that I had to bid somewhere that would keep me off reserve. Couldn't stay here. It meant reserve.

So, you're right. But, I'm sick of this sh*t. I play the cards that are dealt me.

TWA guys want to go back and replay the hand because they don't like how it turned out. They told them the rules to play.............they agreed...........and now they want to change it after the fact to their benefit and our detriment.

Guess what????? When Carty said, ' wave your seniority rights or no deal', they could have told him to stick it up his a$$. Then it would have been no deal and we wouldn't have saved their sorry butts.

But now.........................Boo freakin hooo. They knew the deal. They accepted the deal. And I'm sick of their crying.

Shoulda put em on the street over 2 years ago.

G4G5,

Sorry to hear about the furlough, I feel for ALL you guys getting furloughed. It would have been nice if things had been diffrerent.
Record profits, record aircaft orders, and record hiring, Hell we all might be captains by now, including the TWA boys and gals.

Did they get the short end of stick, without a doubt. Would I have been pissed about the integration if I were over there, sure would. Would I have taken the same action as many of them? Probably. This biz is mean, and does not take prisoners.

Do I feel safe here, not in a million years, do I feel arrogant, NO!

Not hiring a furloughed AA pilot beacuse of what happened to TWA, wow talk about petty.

Unity is gone, and I have no idea when it will be back, or if it will!

Good luck to ALL furloughed AA pilots regardless of what uniform you wore 3 years ago.

AAflyer,

P.S. Clownpilot, I am a little confused at how you were FORCED into SLT? I am junior to you and could have held onto the 767/FO/I out of LGA, although it would have been a few numbers from the bottom. How much do you want to bet that your name shows up on the Preference list to goto SLT? Things that make you go HHMMMMMMM. I don't agree with some ofthe actions of the TWA guys and gals, but don't bid into SLT and blame them.

 

[Clownpilot]

Re: Re: Lil angry are we Bob???????

LOL,

stuck? i see that you must have bid to be in SLT/STL in my seat in a 767 at STL


Gee wiz,

I didn't realize that it was 'YOUR' seat.

You need to get in touch with the company and inform them of the issue of 'your seat'.

Or maybe you just don't have a seat and can't accept that.

 

[AceCrackshot]

Hey, Clown,

Please explain for the dumb kids in the audience how exactly you "saved" TW? Just curious. Or how by loudly pronouncing during BK proceedings how AA was going "save the jobs" of TW employees your organization cut other bidders out of the pattern at court. Only to renege on that promise. Explain. Remember, little words, I'm not that bright.

 

[Neubyfly]

Ozark got DOH. They were restricted to 16 % of the widebody captain seats (since they were now 16% of the whole company). Since they had NO widebodies that was pretty generous. Other than that, they held what their DOH seniority could hold.

Now THAT is a fair intergration!!!!

 

[Pilotbob3]

Re: Indeed

Well you're quite right RA as you well know.

I bid the place that I could hold the best.

I was only "forced" in the sense that I had to bid somewhere that would keep me off reserve. Couldn't stay here. It meant reserve.

So, you're right. But, I'm sick of this sh*t.

BUSTED! LOL Liars are always outed! LOL but it is fun to listen to you spin and justify! LOL I'm sure you will be welcomed in STL after your posts are read! maybe if you didn't have the AArogant AAtitiude you have you wouldn't have to deal with this sh*t you are so sick of! hmmmmmmm?

what a clown! LOL

 

[Pilotbob3]

Re: Re: Re: Lil angry are we Bob???????

LOL,

stuck? i see that you must have bid to be in SLT/STL in my seat in a 767 at STL


Gee wiz,

I didn't realize that it was 'YOUR' seat.

You need to get in touch with the company and inform them of the issue of 'your seat'.

Or maybe you just don't have a seat and can't accept that.

LOL,

hook, line and sinker as they say!!! you crack me up! nice to see your name on the preference list stuck guy! LOL

 

[G4G5]

I am not so sure about that.

I have read plenty of posts by former OZ captains like Bob Herbst They are all less then flattering about the TWA intergration. Sure they gave DOH when they intergrated, because most of the OZ folks (captains) were junior to the TWA pilots. Most of them could no longer hold their seats. Some of the OZ captains, spent quite a few years at TWA just trying to get back to their seats ( TWA seat grab). Leaving the younger OZ folks in the lower paying seats (less pay). "But heck we gave them DOH"

All it cost them was their seats and their $$$$$.

None of this was includded into the Supp CC, AA intergration. Anyone who lost a seat or a job did so because of 9/11, the econony, the war in Iraq, yada yada. Not the AA intergration.

 

[Pilotbob3]

I am not so sure about that.

I have read plenty of posts by former OZ captains like Bob Herbst They are all less then flattering about the TWA intergration. Sure they gave DOH when they intergrated, because most of the OZ folks (captains) were junior to the TWA pilots. Most of them could no longer hold their seats. Some of the OZ captains, spent quite a few years at TWA just trying to get back to their seats ( TWA seat grab). Leaving the younger OZ folks in the lower paying seats (less pay). "But heck we gave them DOH"

All it cost them was their seats and their $$$$$.

None of this was includded into the Supp CC, AA intergration. Anyone who lost a seat or a job did so because of 9/11, the econony, the war in Iraq, yada yada. Not the AA intergration.

Bob Herbst is not very respected by a lot of TWA pilots because of his bitching about getting Date of hire, which is bizarro to me...Yes they got DOH thats how it should be. They are the ones holding 767 captain in STL now....no "yea but's"!

sorry i lost my job because i was STAPLED to the list.....because of the AA pilots and APA. simple as that.....i am a 1998 hire, says so on my ID, (that i had to turn in). there is no other way you can justify what was done.

 

[G4G5]

Bob,

This is where you and I will have to agree to disagree. You did not lose your job because of the AA pilots or the supp CC intergration (as orignally intended). You lost it because:

Carl Ichan
3 BK's
Poor mgt
Karabu
9/11
The Economy
The war in Iraq
I could go on and on but I think most folks get the picture.

I will let the readers be the judge

PS you may not like Bob H but I really get a kick out of those who try and pass off the TWA/OZ intergration as fair. All I need to do is bring up his name and you have the prime example of how one OZ capt lost his DC9 CA seat(bounced over to the right by TWA's DOH, flying fo for TWA pilots in OZ aircraft) and spent the better part of a decade trying to get his seat back. Again you may not like him but that's hardly what I would call fair.

Why are they flying the remaining 767's today? Because like I stated in the previous post, for the most part they were younger. The orignal seat stealing TWA pilots are long since retired.

How many Bob H's are their in the AA intergration? Be fair how many would their have been if supp CC had been implemented as orignally intended?

 

[TWA Dude]

Of course the OZ/TWA merger was unfair. The TWA guys used their leverage as the acquiring carrier to their advantage. I don't mean this as a slam but as simple statement of how the world works. The APA acted similarly but in this case there are far more layoffs. Further complicating matters was ALPA National selling out the TWA guys.

I'm one of the few guys who outwardly agrees with much of what Bob H writes, especially given my juniority. He is not an "I've got mine" kind of guy as his detractors label him. Many of those detractors have trouble dealing with their anger and take it out on anybody who disagrees with them.

 

[Neubyfly]

Of course the OZ/TWA merger was unfair. The TWA guys used their leverage as the acquiring carrier to their advantage. I don't mean this as a slam but as simple statement of how the world works. The APA acted similarly but in this case there are far more layoffs. Further complicating matters was ALPA National selling out the TWA guys.

I'm one of the few guys who outwardly agrees with much of what Bob H writes, especially given my juniority. He is not an "I've got mine" kind of guy as his detractors label him. Many of those detractors have trouble dealing with their anger and take it out on anybody who disagrees with them.

How does one get more fair than DOH?? How does one get more fair than retiring in an aircraft MUCH large than anything Ozark had? The only thing that I see as somewhat unfair is the length of the 16% restriction. Noone intended for it to last so long. Could the integratinon been handled a little better, Maybe? Is it better than what we got.........DEFINATELY!!!

 

[AAflyer]

How does one get more fair than DOH?

Well, how old was OZ at the time of purchase? If the senior person was only 10 years and a majority of the pilots were 5 or less DOH does not do much to the seniority list of the aquiring company.

When a senior airline has people that have been there for well over 25 years then it changes the ballgame.

Not saying TWA was treated fairly, infact like TWADUDE I am a minority on my side as I would be the first to say the TWA pilots got the shaft.

Not trying to sound pissy either, you asked for an opinion and that is mine. If OZ had been larger and and older airline with a more senior pilot group would it have been the same integration?

Hoping for all of us to get back to work soon.

AAflyer


P.S. Becareful using that line of they got to retire in a larger jet than OZ had. Many AA pilots will try to sell you the same line. It does not fly now and certainly should not have flown back then, BECAUSE NOBODY can predict the future!