TWA Lawsuit

[ivauir]

Millionaires at national? No one at national is a millionaire. Not even close. They make little more than a senior line holder at their respective airlines.

Really? "No one." "Not even close" That speaks volumes, although probably not the message you intended to send.. A senior line holder should be a millionaire.

 

[Crzipilot]

PCL , the new ALPo lapdog. Now he is an expert labor rep, chiming in on what the situation was at US East, while he was just getting the PFT slime off his skin. Not sure if he is who I think he is, but he couldn't pass a f/o checkride, then off to Pinnacle as a street captain? then slithers his way to AT and cuddles up to the bosom of mother Alpo..... Really you should just slither away and go hide, really don't care what you've done recently, your beginnings is all one needs to know......

 

[PCL_128]

Well, not really...

They make more. A lot more. The lowest paid secretary makes more than quite a few ALPA carrier copilots. ALPA's history is chock full of sellouts and dirty deals because ALPA is in business for ALPA and that's the long and short of it. Here's a list of payscales back from the day of your buddy Woerthless.

The data you posted is from DOL reports, and with their reporting requirements, all sorts of things count as income that aren't really income. The DOL requires that all of your expenses be included as income, so hotels, meals, rental cars, and all sorts of other things are included in those numbers. They're a sham created by anti-labor politicians who are trying to get union members to turn against their own unions. Don't fall for it.

Not sure if he is who I think he is, but he couldn't pass a f/o checkride, then off to Pinnacle as a street captain? then slithers his way to AT and cuddles up to the bosom of mother Alpo..... Really you should just slither away and go hide, really don't care what you've done recently, your beginnings is all one needs to know......

Wrong guy, Crzi. I've never been a street captain, and never failed a 121 checkride. Sorry to disappoint.

 

[Crzipilot]

well throw out that part though, and the rest is accurate...

 

[glasspilot1]

Is the trial over? What happened?

No....

 

[xjhawk]

You came across as bitterly anti-ALPA and Hawaiian is an ALPA carrier. Happily so in my opinion and I don't see that changing anytime soon. I was not judging your character, I was suggesting that if you are as anti-ALPA as your post suggested, you might want to reconsider as you would be joining a pro-ALPA pilot group if hired. Your subsequent post clarified your ALPA attitude somewhat but the statement "I hope someone slams ALPA" is what gets me.

For the most part, what everyone blames ALPA National for is the actions of their own MECs under the leadership of pilots they themselves have elected. If ALPA National is "slammed" by this lawsuit, it will not only hurt ALPA National, but ALPA units and ALPA pilots everywhere. It will weaken the structure and might even result in an assessment of all the pilots.

I have disagreed with Hawaiian's MEC internally when I do not think they have made the right choice/decisions but externally I support them 100%. I have no doubt they are acting in the manner they think is best for the entire pilot group. I do know that without Hawaiian's ALPA unit and ALPA National's support, I would not be enjoying the compensation, work rules and quality of life that our contract affords. That Hawaiian is such a good place to work is thanks to ALPA. So no, I do not want anti-ALPA pilots to join our pilot group. I don't want our unity and strength weakened by naysayers.

I am not naive, I understand that ALPA is not perfect and makes mistakes/has weaknesses. But the good they do far out shines the bad. The mistakes and weaknesses can be fixed without "slamming" the organization and losing sight of the big picture.

I like everything that you have said-and fine if you do not want a guy like me as a part of their airline ( who was let down by ALPA NAtional's lack of defined merger policy and wants them held accountable). That is your choice. I am glad you have reaped the benefits of ALPA whereas I have felt the blunt end of their stick. I have supported our local MEC through everything but have not drank their coolaid and went behind them on everything. But not once have I supported anyone who has said they would like to get rid of ALPA at our airline. I weighed the consequences and think the benefits outweigh the negative things I have experienced recently. Oh and you seem like a decent enough guy but who are you to tell me who I want to work for? I am aware that ALPA is everywhere and with the situation I am in I would be an idiot to stay at "Pinnacle" and an even bigger idiot to say not to a good company that is ALPA. I am disappointed in ALPA and their performance in mergers (as said before I am suffering from an injustice while others are reaping the rewards) and think they need to be held accountable. OUr MEC said that to fight it would be a drain on our resources and the likely outcome would be a loss. So I agree with them, we should live with it-but I am not happy. If I am given the opportunity to fly for Hawaiian I will gladly accept and do everything to make it a great place to work-including supporting my local union guys like I do now. Maybe we will fly together and you will automatically hate me for being Army too and not Navy.....and why are you not at Delta?

 

[Dolce]

PCL,

Let me preface this with I'm not an accountant, but my boss is one. If you have expenses such as meals, apartments, cars, hotels, etc. and you are reimbursed for said expenses, are you not being compensated, i.e. benefits for the nice ALPA apartment and car to get you back and forth to the office. What about the expensive meals and high-dollar bottles of wine with after-dinner cigars? Correct me if I'm wrong, but those are benefits and only technically expenses to explain to the dues paying members how their money is being spent...right?

Next question...will you run for a SWAPA domicile rep or even executive position? You probably never get elected or even get a committe position, but I will vote for you!

Crazy,

PCL , the new ALPo lapdog. Now he is an expert labor rep, chiming in on what the situation was at US East, while he was just getting the PFT slime off his skin.

I think you're technically correct on this part of your analysis, but hey, he'll always have my SWAPA vote!

D

 

[Just thinking]

From an individual who was in the courtroom during Duane's testimony:
Boring while ALPA attorneys questioned him adnauseum. Once it got turned over things got real dicey and his memory was very poor and vague. Plenty of evidence to "remind" him of the events that he was directly involved in. Meal for four ALPA big shots and one American Airlines Captain that totaled over $1000. All this while TWA was getting nothing in support. Court transcripts will reveal the evidence that the court has heard and more importantly the jury. Time will tell.

 

[freightdogfred]

Duane Woerth is a backstabbing, lying, POS and if I ever meet him I'll tell him to his face.

I wouldn't piss down his mouth if his guts were on fire.

 

[Jim]

I like everything that you have said-and fine if you do not want a guy like me as a part of their airline ( who was let down by ALPA NAtional's lack of defined merger policy and wants them held accountable). That is your choice. I am glad you have reaped the benefits of ALPA whereas I have felt the blunt end of their stick. I have supported our local MEC through everything but have not drank their coolaid and went behind them on everything. But not once have I supported anyone who has said they would like to get rid of ALPA at our airline. I weighed the consequences and think the benefits outweigh the negative things I have experienced recently. Oh and you seem like a decent enough guy but who are you to tell me who I want to work for? I am aware that ALPA is everywhere and with the situation I am in I would be an idiot to stay at "Pinnacle" and an even bigger idiot to say not to a good company that is ALPA. I am disappointed in ALPA and their performance in mergers (as said before I am suffering from an injustice while others are reaping the rewards) and think they need to be held accountable. OUr MEC said that to fight it would be a drain on our resources and the likely outcome would be a loss. So I agree with them, we should live with it-but I am not happy. If I am given the opportunity to fly for Hawaiian I will gladly accept and do everything to make it a great place to work-including supporting my local union guys like I do now. Maybe we will fly together and you will automatically hate me for being Army too and not Navy.....and why are you not at Delta?

When I say I don't want someone who is anti-ALPA to join our pilot group, I mean that in the generic sense, not you specifically. It's up to you to decide if you fit that mold or not.

To be clear, I have no problem with those that think outside of the box, question things and make suggestions for improvement as long as it remains an internal debate within the pilot group. But to management, the other employee groups, and the world at large showing a strongly unified pilot group is the key to our continued success as a union.

BTW, I was an 11C SGT before I was a Navy officer and my Dad is retired Army. Just don't say "hooah" as then I'll assume you sneezed and say "gesundheit". (Hooah started long after I got out of the Army.)

 

[Crzipilot]

Any ALPO president that doesn't go back to his line job when his term is up, and instead, ends up in a figure head Sr. VP position of a company owned equal parts by the major airlines, Uhmmmmmmm........I wonder what that payment was for. Lives in FL but works for Company in MN I believe or Maybe IL. Either way, the damn company is OWNED by the major airlines. And Woerthless ends up in probably nice 6 figure position. One gets a little bile in the back of ones throat, thinking what he was being paid off for.....

Found it, Sojern, go figure..... and I guess now our voice in ICAO.....greattttttt The guberment be paying him off now too......

http://investing.businessweek.com/r...viousCapId=46740682&previousTitle=Sojern, Inc.

 

[swa737-700]

I agree with those who have little use for alpo, but with that being said, can we please reserve this thread for updates of the TWA lawsuit? Thanks,

 

[PCL_128]

who was let down by ALPA NAtional's lack of defined merger policy and wants them held accountable

I'm curious: what do you think a defined merger policy should be? DOH? Relative? Category & status? What is such a perfect system that it can be applied to every merger, every time? I don't think such a system exists; hence the current policy that allows flexibility.

Let me preface this with I'm not an accountant, but my boss is one. If you have expenses such as meals, apartments, cars, hotels, etc. and you are reimbursed for said expenses, are you not being compensated, i.e. benefits for the nice ALPA apartment and car to get you back and forth to the office. What about the expensive meals and high-dollar bottles of wine with after-dinner cigars? Correct me if I'm wrong, but those are benefits and only technically expenses to explain to the dues paying members how their money is being spent...right?

When your company gets you a hotel room, do you consider that to be "income?" Of course not, because the only reason you need the hotel room is to do the job. The same is true of the national officers. They wouldn't have an apartment in DC if it weren't for them having to be there for their ALPA job, so considering the reimbursement for said apartment as income is ridiculous.

Next question...will you run for a SWAPA domicile rep or even executive position?

I don't have any plans to run for anything.

 

[XTW]

From an individual who was in the courtroom during Duane's testimony:
Boring while ALPA attorneys questioned him adnauseum. Once it got turned over things got real dicey and his memory was very poor and vague. Plenty of evidence to "remind" him of the events that he was directly involved in. Meal for four ALPA big shots and one American Airlines Captain that totaled over $1000. All this while TWA was getting nothing in support. Court transcripts will reveal the evidence that the court has heard and more importantly the jury. Time will tell.

Actually, it was only $996.

X

 

[Dolce]

PCL,
You really want to go there? Why don't you make a more proper comparison to crashpads, transportation to a from crashpads, meals when staying at crashpads, etc.. Because many chose to commute to a domicile, whether they wanted to or not, they're not compensated for those expenses. I guarantee ALPAs president doesn't live in a crashpad nor does he ride public transportation while eating MickeyDs! He's compensated for the "high dollar" DC pad, while driving the rental "Beemer" to and from the 5-star eatery...yeah, you did put into the proper perspective.

 

[charlie2]

As far as your question, you weren't exactly in a position to demand anything like that at Airways. The airline was in dire shape, and a judge would have imposed something far more onerous than even the horrible conditions that you ended up with in negotiations, most likely. The company wasn't going to accept a snapback clause, and the judge wouldn't either. There was nothing that anyone at national could do about that.

I agree we were in dire shape but I think there could have been some language allowing a snapback on the condition the corporation is healthy. The date just after the start date....after the hyphen (read "end date") in the pay section of LOA 93 read 12-31-09. A condition could have said something like this. If the company makes more than 400 million dollars in profit the year following the "end date" of LOA 93 then the pay will snap back to the former rates. Kinda funny how after the east pilots saved the company we made more than 400 million in profit in 2010! This language protects the company, if we were still hurtin there would have been NO snap back, so why wouldn't a judge approve it? I know why management wouldn't...they don't want to pay pilots at all. Remeber the fat lady hasn't sung yet on the LOA 93 arbitration.

 

[dicko]

Kinda funny how after the east pilots saved the company

One of the funniest posts to ever grace the pages of Flight Info. Kudos.

 

[charlie2]

One of the funniest posts to ever grace the pages of Flight Info. Kudos.

Without LOA 93 there may have been a ch 7.

 

[PCL_128]

PCL,
You really want to go there? Why don't you make a more proper comparison to crashpads, transportation to a from crashpads, meals when staying at crashpads, etc.. Because many chose to commute to a domicile, whether they wanted to or not, they're not compensated for those expenses. I guarantee ALPAs president doesn't live in a crashpad nor does he ride public transportation while eating MickeyDs! He's compensated for the "high dollar" DC pad, while driving the rental "Beemer" to and from the 5-star eatery...yeah, you did put into the proper perspective.

You would be surprised at how ALPA's national officers live. It's hardly a luxury lifestyle. The BOD sets limits on their expenses based on average housing costs in the DC area, so their apartments are far from luxurious. Cars? Sorry, but "Beemers" aren't allowed. Has to be an American or Canadian made car built by union workers, and the monthly payment has a pretty low limit. A typical car would be a Ford SUV, or something similar. There are occasional nice meals for special occasions, but they aren't the norm. In general, the ideas of luxury that people have in their heads for ALPA officers are nothing but fantasy. These guys have a crappy work schedule, rarely get to spend time with their families, sometimes for weeks at a time, and live in one of the highest cost of living areas in the country with strict limits in place on their expenses.

 

[charlie2]

Don't forget the pensions.