TV Report: PILOTS ON FOOD STAMPS

[Sticky]

First year teachers where I live make around $40K/yr. Cops, a little more with signing bonuses.

Why should a pilot work 90 hours a month to get this kind of pay? It would be different if he/she was able to be home every night, working 40 duty hours per week.

Are you considering income tax? When I had a 9 to 5 job with a salary of $50K, I walked home with $2,800 a month. These days with second year pay at my regional is $31. After per diem, I walk home with about $2,500.

Apples to apples...one could argue that I make equal to someone with a $45K salary.

Now....an income equal to a $45K salary for a airline pilot in the year 2007 is shameful/pathetic. The minimum pay should be at LEAST enough to support a family.

 

[NEDude]

[He then went on to say that you can only earn 80 hours per month?? WTF?? I think 95 + would be a more accurate credit projection for most regional contracts./QUOTE]

Hmm, last I checked, under 121 rules you could only fly 1000 hours per year. Divide 1000 by 12 months and you get 83.3 hours per month to time out at the end of the year. It may happen that some guys do time out, but I have yet to meet someone actually do it. We did have a guy do it four years in row at Air Wisconsin, but he got fired because he was caught popping circut breakers to keep the ACARS still logging block time while parked at the gate (true story).

 

[XJohXJ]

Hey SplitBar,

I hate to say it, but you've gotta know you are significantly wrong when you have InstructorDude agreeing with you!

By the way, I'm on 3rd year FO pay at Mesaba and am making significantly less than a school teacher (my teacher friends laugh at my pay, and I will still earn less than them when I upgrade to SF3 Capt). Furthermore, I'm only earning about 50% of median pay for the MSP metro area (in other words, way way way below average pay.)

 

[AWACoff]

[He then went on to say that you can only earn 80 hours per month?? WTF?? I think 95 + would be a more accurate credit projection for most regional contracts./QUOTE]

Hmm, last I checked, under 121 rules you could only fly 1000 hours per year. Divide 1000 by 12 months and you get 83.3 hours per month to time out at the end of the year. It may happen that some guys do time out, but I have yet to meet someone actually do it. We did have a guy do it four years in row at Air Wisconsin, but he got fired because he was caught popping circut breakers to keep the ACARS still logging block time while parked at the gate (true story).

He was not fired. He left for a corporate job in Wisconsin. Don't post rumors and hearsay.

 

[whymeworry?]

Sad that this former NWA pilot couldn't get his facts straight before he discredited himself on CNBC. He 1st said that starting regional FO pay is $16 - $20 per hour when in fact a more accurate range is $22-$25 per hour for starting pay. He then went on to say that you can only earn 80 hours per month?? WTF?? I think 95 + would be a more accurate credit projection for most regional contracts. Most 2nd year regional FO's are making more than 2nd Year school teachers, Financial Advisors, Police Officers, Retail Managers, ect. ect.... In fact... average 2nd year regional FO pay out pays the average pay for a college graduate entry level job. Look ahead a few years for Regional Captain pay and you are way above average median income.

So you like flying 95 hrs a month?

1) You obviously don't have a family.
2) You will never be able to sustain 95 hrs permantly. It will catch up with you. Especially once you go int'l.


So it appears the NW guy is right. 80 hours is the norm

 

[SplitBar]

So you like flying 95 hrs a month?

1) You obviously don't have a family.
2) You will never be able to sustain 95 hrs permantly. It will catch up with you. Especially once you go int'l.


So it appears the NW guy is right. 80 hours is the norm

Someone please explain to whymeworry the difference between blocking 95 hours per month as opposed to crediting 95 hour per month. Clearly he missed the part where I said "credit 95 hours", I never said anything about blocking 95 hours. Sorry your contract doesn't differentiate. I guess I'm not suprised when all my buddies at CAL tell me how much their work rules suck. I usually fly 75 hours and credit 105 and it's not too hard to do.

 

[SplitBar]

Hey SplitBar,

I hate to say it, but you've gotta know you are significantly wrong when you have InstructorDude agreeing with you!

By the way, I'm on 3rd year FO pay at Mesaba and am making significantly less than a school teacher (my teacher friends laugh at my pay, and I will still earn less than them when I upgrade to SF3 Capt). Furthermore, I'm only earning about 50% of median pay for the MSP metro area (in other words, way way way below average pay.)

No doubt that pilot pay needs to and will go up from where it is now. It's simple supply and demand. Thousands are lined up to fly for CAL and NWA for $30 per hour, and at CAL you don't even get insurance for the first 6 months. Nonetheless, the supply and demand allows them to get away with it. Same thing at the regionals. As a 3rd year XJ SF340 Captain you should easily make $50K per year and that is what the median "FAMILY HOUSEHOLD" Income is for Minneapolis. I'm not sayint the pay shouldn't be more...I'm just saying it isn't food stamp wages like the news clip reported. So how is 50k per year "way way way below average pay" How are you defining average pay and what are you comparing it to? Regionals are hiring anyone with the time now....it doesn't take a 4 year degree anymore. Be sure to compare apples to apples.

 

[highsky]

The reason pilots get paid chitty wages is because THEY ARE WILLING TO DO IT. You can't blame management. Their job is not to give pilots an amazing quality of life and make them all millionaires. Their job is to produce a product for the lowest possible cost, to provide the maximum ROI for the stockholders. That is how they are evaluated.

So in a freemarket economy, how much is an airline pilot worth? About $18,000. Why? Again, because you can always find somebody who is willing to fly jets around the world, flying to exotic places, working with (sometimes) attractive flight attendants, for $18,000 per year. The ONLY way WE defeat that freemarket economy principle is by collective bargaining.

I'm not pointing fingers. I've done it myself. Many years ago, I flew cancelled checks in Florida for $2.30 cents per hour. Four lines of thunderstorms every day...no weather radar. I never didn't go because of the weather. Why? Because if I didn't, there were 5000 guys waiting in line behind me who would. Looking back, I can't believe I did that. But that's easy now. Not so easy when you're 23 and desperate to make it in this difficult business.

That's when I learned the value of unions. We had no union there. And we were complete whores.

Seems nowadays the principle of unions has been lost. It's not about the American Pilots' Union, or ALPA, or Southwest Pilot's Union, or the IPA, or whatever... It's about realizing that WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER. No matter what our union affiliation. We shouldn't be competing against one another. We need to be supporting each other, and rooting for pilot groups of every other airline to get HUGE contract improvements. Obviously, that raises the bar for ALL OF US.

 

[Lear70]

I'm not sayint the pay shouldn't be more...I'm just saying it isn't food stamp wages like the news clip reported.

Yes, it is,,, 1st year.

I've SEEN the food stamps with my own 2 eyes working at PCL. 1st year F/O with a wife and kids (if the wife doesn't work) DOES fall under the median poverty level and they DO qualify.

This occurs at many regionals 1st year. No amount of later pay in your career justifies the abysmal compensation offered by many airlines, including some Legacy carriers.

Personally, I hope the pilot supply trickles so low it forces more than a couple regionals out of business and eventually raises those pay rates. The only people (other than pilots) I know who made less than $45,000 their 1st year after graduating college are the ones who didn't bother to plan ahead and job search.

Not to mention the geniuses that go spend $100,000+ on a "tech school" to get all their ratings and don't even have a degree to show for it. Pay THOSE student loan payments while making less than $50,000 a year with a family. Ain't happening.

 

[frapper]

The guy was saying that starting pay at a regional qualifies for food stamps. We're not talking about captains. I know that we still start out at $19/hr at ASA -- do the math. The guy was a former pilot trying to help out our industry. You should just be thanking him, not trying to discredit him!

No doubt that pilot pay needs to and will go up from where it is now. It's simple supply and demand. Thousands are lined up to fly for CAL and NWA for $30 per hour, and at CAL you don't even get insurance for the first 6 months. Nonetheless, the supply and demand allows them to get away with it. Same thing at the regionals. As a 3rd year XJ SF340 Captain you should easily make $50K per year and that is what the median "FAMILY HOUSEHOLD" Income is for Minneapolis. I'm not sayint the pay shouldn't be more...I'm just saying it isn't food stamp wages like the news clip reported. So how is 50k per year "way way way below average pay" How are you defining average pay and what are you comparing it to? Regionals are hiring anyone with the time now....it doesn't take a 4 year degree anymore. Be sure to compare apples to apples.

 

[Beetle007]

No doubt that pilot pay needs to and will go up from where it is now.

It won't go up with attitudes like yours. You act like as supply decreases pay will obviously go up. I think it is more likely that the pay will decrease (when adjusted to inflation) and that the quality of applicants will simply decrease. We have already seen this happen in the Regional industry. Look at how the minimums have dropped across the board.

Some airlines in Euruope love to hire 250 hr pilots straight into the A320 and B737 as part of their cadet programs. It saves them lots of money.

 

[Redmeat]

The guy was a former pilot trying to help out our industry. You should just be thanking him, not trying to discredit him!

But that wouldn't jive with the historical trend of pilots being their own worst enemies now would it?

Management always banks on this and are always proved right.

Someone said it on this board somewhere else and it rings so true so many times:

'Pilots are the stupidest smart people'

 

[CKJET]

[He then went on to say that you can only earn 80 hours per month?? WTF?? I think 95 + would be a more accurate credit projection for most regional contracts./QUOTE]

Hmm, last I checked, under 121 rules you could only fly 1000 hours per year. Divide 1000 by 12 months and you get 83.3 hours per month to time out at the end of the year. It may happen that some guys do time out, but I have yet to meet someone actually do it. We did have a guy do it four years in row at Air Wisconsin, but he got fired because he was caught popping circut breakers to keep the ACARS still logging block time while parked at the gate (true story).

I have loged 1000 in a year once, At Tower Air two or three guys a year would do it. It was long hard International flying, not up and down all day in a RJ but it has been done. Of course this came with having to live in Saudia Arabia evey Nov/Dec for the hadj flying but you could rack the hours up there if you wanted. However it was not at anything near Food Stamp wages once you got into extended duty time etc....

As long as guys/gals keep running to the reginols for these wages they will keep paying them.

 

[Beetle007]

The biggest thing we are missing is that, in other industries, people only have to start at the bottom once. If they switch companies, they almost always start at the same or higher pay. I don't have any friends that have ever left a company for a pay cut.

How many pilots in this industry will be privileged enough to work for one regional and one major their entire career? Most will start at the bottom several times. This is the biggest reason that starting pay at every airline needs to be raised.

Of course, this industry is all about the ME. Why should I care what the starting pay at my company is after I have been here a few years?

 

[superrav]

if you have to fly 95 hours a month to make a living well then i think there is a problem. We should be making a decent living at our monthly guarantee...I'm glad that the NWA pilot was on there..its about time the public heard of our poor wages.