Turn at 400' AGL?

[English]

As a relatively new FO, on probation, if it were me, I would tread with caution arguments with your Captains.

Never just go along with a captain, just because you are on probation. If you have a question, bring it up and find the answer together. But, Bobbysamd, your comment to just go along with a captain due to being on probation bothers me. We should never just go along for the ride due to our probationary status. I agree there shouldn't be arguments, per se, but the original poster wrote he had a disagreement, not an argument.

If in doubt, bring it up no matter your status.

 

[milplt]

If the particular airport requires a turn higher than 400'AGL, a DP would be published or some other obstacle departure procedures would be published on the back of the Jepps 10-9 pg or front of the Approach book (DOD) or some equivalent. If no obstacles penetrate the plane of a 200'/nm climb with a turn to any heading at 400' AGL, then no procedures are required.

 

[avbug]

Summertime, I start the turn at 3', but that's not on for corporate or airline flying. I may never climb up to 400'...

So far as arguing with captains...don't. But asking questions, within reason, is appropriate and expected.

 

[satpak77]

common sense and judgement

use this and you will be ok

obviously you dont climb to FL 510 before turning on course but you dont do it at Vr either

1000 feet (esp in turbine or jet) is nice and conservative and 500 feet is probably a good rule for props and/or pistons. Some ops specs/etc will specifically state it.

Take off on 12-R at KSAT at mins and make a righthand turn just after liftoff and you will take out the control tower.

just because the AIM recommends 400 feet does not mean you should do it. Use your pilot judgement and common sense.

 

[SSDD]

When SFO is departing 1L-R, ATC expects you to start your turn almost immediately after takeoff to avoid drifting. Most airliners will start a "slight" turn shortly after the gear comes up.

 

[FlyChicaga]

100' VFR, accel height IFR. Clean up at accel height and final segment speed.

Sure... climb to 1500' before turning at DCA. We'll see where that gets you.

 

[Jmmccutc]

i just felt like posting this with no real relevance to answering the question, it's just more of a senerio type thing, our runway is 1-19, i recently saw a Citation X depart 1 and **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** near after wheels up crank in about 30 deg to get an on course of about 120 degrees, i know this probably (procedurely speaking) isn't the best thing to do, but it was rather bad ass to watch it...the other thing i got to thinking after the fact was he also might have been trying to avoid the CLE class B that is about 5 miles North of our field...just a guess but it was cool as he!!

 

[deez_nutz2000]

Unless using an instrument or obstacle departure procedure, you are technically supposed to follow this, according to a local POI who said he would start violating people for not complying with it. Not sure how he could since it ins't a reg.....but I guess we are responsible for following it as professionals.

AIM 4-3-2
Even though this is for airports w/a control tower, we were told it is to be followed at an uncontrolled airport as well.

6. Departure Leg
The flight path which begins after takeoff and continues straight ahead along the extended runway centerline. The departure climb continues UNTIL reaching a point at Least 1/2 mile from the departure end of the runway AND within 300 feet of the traffic pattern altitude.

*Can't say I follow this all the time ,sometimes it is just unrealistic to do this, but the Gods have given us their interpretation*


Also, for what it is worth.....we did end up getting this guy to agree that as long as a pilot is IFR rated, current, etc. per the FAR's and a/c is FAR compliant...it does not state anywhere that an IFR clearance is required to fly in IMC in uncontrolled airspace (such as out west). As stupid as it sounds, one FSDO agrees.

Any good arguments?

 

[potrack]

I agree with MilPlt:

1. If there is an obstacle DP, file/fly it.
2. If there is not, and there are instrument approaches to that field, Diverse Departures are authorized.
3. Diverse Dep for zone 1 have you straight ahead to 400' then turning.

4. My company rules say "In VFR you can turn below 400', at the Captain's discretion. Common for runway 32 dept from ORD.

Don't be so conservative you climb to 1500' at ORD---you will just clog things up.

 

[bobbysamd]

Misquote

Never just go along with a captain, just because you are on probation. If you have a question, bring it up and find the answer together. But, Bobbysamd, your comment to just go along with a captain due to being on probation bothers me.

(emphasis added)

That is not what I wrote. I did not write to "go along with a captain due to being on probation." Here it is again, for you to re-read:

As a relatively new FO, on probation, if it were me, I would tread with caution arguments with your Captains.

Plain English. In other words, consider your comments carefully before speaking up. In other words, be sure you know what you're talking about before opening your yap. I never recommended to just go along with a captain or not to speak up.

If you disagree with something I might write, fine. But at least extend the courtesy of quoting me correctly and respond accordingly.