Turbine PIC as FO

[YourPilotFriend]

What about RC aircraft?

 

[TheAlchemist]

I was wondering what are some ways to get some turbine PIC as an FO. Obviously when the CA goes to the bathroom to make #2 you can get a lot, but sometimes there are other ways like if you need to keep the eng. running to hot fueling and the CA leaves the 'pit. What are some other ways thou? A friend is up to 22.7 hours of turbine PIC and he is still a 2 year FO, I want to get some someday. At this rate he wont have to upgrade he can just take that PIC to another airlines thats not a regional.

Are you for real??

 

[414Flyer]

If this guy catches any more, he will end up getting fined from Fish and Game Dept for exceeding the legal catch

 

[mrebuck]

I was wondering what are some ways to get some turbine PIC as an FO. Obviously when the CA goes to the bathroom to make #2 you can get a lot, but sometimes there are other ways like if you need to keep the eng. running to hot fueling and the CA leaves the 'pit. What are some other ways thou? A friend is up to 22.7 hours of turbine PIC and he is still a 2 year FO, I want to get some someday. At this rate he wont have to upgrade he can just take that PIC to another airlines thats not a regional.

The posts this guy makes are always funny.

 

[AC560]

It is wrong. It is illegal.

Might get you laughed out of an interview but certainly isn't illegal. A cursory understanding of 61.51 would make this point clear.

Legal Interpretation # 92-40

June 5, 1992

Dear Mr. Butler:

Thank you for your letter of March 14, 1992, in which you ask
questions about logging pilot-in-command (PIC) and
second-in-command (SIC) time when operating under Part 121 of the
Federal Aviation Regulations (FAR).

Your letter presents the following scenario: under a Part 121
operation, the air carrier has designated a pilot and a co-pilot.
The pilot is the authorized PIC and the co-pilot is the
authorized SIC. During the course of the flight, the SIC is the
sole manipulator of the controls for one or more legs.

You ask two questions. The first asks whether the pilot
designated as PIC by the employer, as required by FAR 121.385,
can log PIC time while the SIC is actually flying the airplane.
The answer is yes.

FAR 1.1 defines pilot in command:

(1) Pilot in command means the pilot responsible for the
operation and safety of an aircraft during flight time.

FAR 91.3 describes the pilot in command:

(a) The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly
responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the
operation of that aircraft.

There is a difference between serving as PIC and logging PIC
time. Part 61 deals with logging flight time, and it is
important to note that section 61.51, Pilot logbooks, only
regulates the recording of:

(a) The aeronautical training and experience used to meet
the requirements for a certificate or rating, or the recent
flight experience requirements of this part.

Your second question asks if the SIC is flying the airplane, can
he log PIC time in accordance with FAR 61.51(c)(2)(i) because he
is appropriately rated and current, and is the sole manipulator
of the controls. Additionally, he has passed the competency
checks required for Part 121 operations, at least as SIC. The
answer is yes.

FAR 61.51(c) addresses logging of pilot time:

(2) Pilot-in-command flight time.

(i) A recreational, private, or commercial pilot may
log pilot-in-command time only that flight time during
which that pilot is the sole manipulator of the
controls of an aircraft for which the pilot is rated,
or when the pilot is the sole occupant of the aircraft,
or, except for a recreational pilot, when acting as
pilot-in-command of an aircraft on which more than one
pilot is required under the type certification or the
aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is
conducted.

(ii) An airline transport pilot may log as pilot in
command time all of the flight time during which he
acts as pilot in command.

(iii) Second-in-command flight time. A pilot may log
as second in command time all flight time during which
he acts as second in command of an aircraft on which
more than one pilot is required under the type
certification of the aircraft, or the regulations under
which the flight is conducted.

As you can see, there are two ways to log pilot-in-command flight
time that are pertinent to both your questions. The first is as
the pilot responsible for the safety and operation of an aircraft
during flight time. If a pilot is designated as PIC for a flight
by the certificate holder, as required by FAR 121.385, that
person is pilot in command for the entire flight, no matter who
is actually manipulating the controls of the aircraft, because
that pilot is responsible for the safety and operation of the
aircraft.

The second way to log PIC flight time that is pertinent to your
question is to be the sole manipulator of the controls of an
aircraft for which the pilot is rated, as you mention in your
letter. Thus, under a 121 operation you can have both pilots
logging time as pilot in command when the appropriately rated
second in command is manipulating the controls.

We stress, however, that here we are discussing logging of flight
time for purposes of FAR 61.51, where you are keeping a record to
show recent flight experience or to show that you meet the
requirements for a higher rating. Your question does not say if
the second pilot in your example is fully qualified as a PIC, or
only as an SIC. This is important, because even though an SIC
can log PIC time, that pilot may not be qualified to serve as PIC
under Part 121.

An example of this difference is FAR 121.652(a), which raises IFR
landing minimums for pilots in command of airplanes flown under
Part 121 who have not served at least 100 hours as PIC in that
type of airplane. Served and logged are not the same in this
context, and no matter how the SIC logs his time, he has not
served as a PIC until he has completed the training and check
rides necessary for certification as a Part 121 PIC.

We hope this satisfactorily answers your questions.

Sincerely,

/s/ Donald P. Byrne
Assistant Chief Counsel
Regulations and Enforcement Division

 

[Axel]

That really was good. 5 pages and some still taking it seriously...

whew!

We are in the presence of mastery. A true master baiter. Give him a hand.

 

[JDREsquire1224]

Wow, guys thanks for all the replies. I think I almost have it down. I'm going to call FSDO and make sure it's true what some have said and if so, my friend is gonna need a lot of white out, LOL! And that green white out they sell in pilot stores because his logbook is green! Here's the meatball in your oatmeal though, what happens when they question about an ATP? That won't happen to my friend because he's going to get his ATP in a C-150 (Cessna 150) and then he'll just flash that at someone and they'll assume all the time was correct because he's got an ATP with PIC. Maybe I'll go tell him to return that white out, opps, I mean green out LOL!

 

[wmuflyguy]

Wow, guys thanks for all the replies. I think I almost have it down. I'm going to call FSDO and make sure it's true what some have said and if so, my friend is gonna need a lot of white out, LOL! And that green white out they sell in pilot stores because his logbook is green! Here's the meatball in your oatmeal though, what happens when they question about an ATP? That won't happen to my friend because he's going to get his ATP in a C-150 (Cessna 150) and then he'll just flash that at someone and they'll assume all the time was correct because he's got an ATP with PIC. Maybe I'll go tell him to return that white out, opps, I mean green out LOL!

Wow, just wow.

I think you should try this, video tape the interviewers reaction, and then put it in YouTube, that way we get to see it.

 

[say again]

Wow, guys thanks for all the replies. I think I almost have it down. I'm going to call FSDO and make sure it's true what some have said and if so, my friend is gonna need a lot of white out, LOL! And that green white out they sell in pilot stores because his logbook is green! Here's the meatball in your oatmeal though, what happens when they question about an ATP? That won't happen to my friend because he's going to get his ATP in a C-150 (Cessna 150) and then he'll just flash that at someone and they'll assume all the time was correct because he's got an ATP with PIC. Maybe I'll go tell him to return that white out, opps, I mean green out LOL!

 

[Max Q]

Dear All the people who've actually realized JDREsquire1224 is full of it and/or think he is funny,

You want a cookie or something?

Love,

Brett