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Trying to understand GOJETS

fr8r

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First of all, I understand that they are an alter-ego airline... we don't need to discuss that.

So, I have done some brief research, but I am trying to figure out the gripe with the PAY at gojets. It seems to me that the pay is on par with the rest of the industry. Am I missing something? I am not a 121 guy, so I might be ill informed here. I looked into about 10 different operators and didn't see much discrepancy in pay for the same aircraft... so, why do people gripe that the gojets pay isn't industry standard. As far as I am concerned, the pay at every regional is $h1tty and gojets doesn't seem to break the mold.

Also, I am trying to understand how anyone could survive at a regional like American Eagle as an FO for 7+ years when the pay at AA is so freaking low! This is complete BS! What is it with AMR? They don't even have a flow threw program, so where is the incentive?

preparing for all the flame BS... please refrain, I am only wondering about the pay situation, not all the political stuff. Thanks.
 

rjacobs

You Still Suck
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When blowjets was created the pay was about $0.50 above what the TSA 50 seat pay was/is. It is still only barely above that even with their contract they signed and the TSA contract was from 02. It is also less than many 50 seat operators. Our pay at XJT(even after concessions) is still higher than blowjets in every year. Their 401k and per-diem is also crap compared to most places.
 

belchfire

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Their 401k and per-diem is also crap compared to most places.

True to HK's form...

fr8r-you do understand that what forced good old Hector into starting this company is a scope clause from those nice people at AMR. Even though the 70 seat aircraft are not operated in the AA codeshare system, Eagle insisted that they be the only AA partner allowed to operate 70 seat rj's-regardless of the paint scheme on the airplane.

In other words AMR thinks that they can tell a subcontractor what kind of flying they are allowed to do-even if it is for another airline!

More good stuff from the worlds largest, most dysfunctional airline...wanna buy a sandwich to carry on the airplane after you've paid to have your bag checked?
 

LearLove

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a few years ago TSA got a UAL contract to fly 70 seaters. Hulas told his pilots (TSA) that they would have to fly 70 seaters for 50 seat pay. Pilots said no we have 70 seat rates in our contract. Hulas forms new airline and tells TSA guys that they can go over to new airline (gojets) and basically start over. A majority of TSA stand strong and say no. However some skumbags don't and step over their brothers (on the necks of senior pilots) for a shot at pic and a big 70 seat jet. TSA guys have been getting screwed since.

I don't care if gojets get paid $1,000,000 per second to fly the 700. what they did is unexcuseable.
 
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relief tube

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First of all, I understand that they are an alter-ego airline... we don't need to discuss that.

So, I have done some brief research, but I am trying to figure out the gripe with the PAY at gojets. It seems to me that the pay is on par with the rest of the industry. Am I missing something? I am not a 121 guy, so I might be ill informed here. I looked into about 10 different operators and didn't see much discrepancy in pay for the same aircraft... so, why do people gripe that the gojets pay isn't industry standard. As far as I am concerned, the pay at every regional is $h1tty and gojets doesn't seem to break the mold.

Also, I am trying to understand how anyone could survive at a regional like American Eagle as an FO for 7+ years when the pay at AA is so freaking low! This is complete BS! What is it with AMR? They don't even have a flow threw program, so where is the incentive?

preparing for all the flame BS... please refrain, I am only wondering about the pay situation, not all the political stuff. Thanks.

Not being a 121 guy has you sheltered. Doesn't even matter what Gojets pay is, they're an alter ego, period. And as for incentive at Eagle, all growth has been halted so it's better to be at a place with better pay/contract, than say, mesa. It's the guys that decide to go to Eagle instead of Gojet if offered both that offers hope that there's people left in this country that have principles.
 

CX880

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Joined
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Posts
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First of all, I understand that they are an alter-ego airline... we don't need to discuss that.

So, I have done some brief research, but I am trying to figure out the gripe with the PAY at gojets. It seems to me that the pay is on par with the rest of the industry. Am I missing something? I am not a 121 guy, so I might be ill informed here. I looked into about 10 different operators and didn't see much discrepancy in pay for the same aircraft... so, why do people gripe that the gojets pay isn't industry standard. As far as I am concerned, the pay at every regional is $h1tty and gojets doesn't seem to break the mold.

Also, I am trying to understand how anyone could survive at a regional like American Eagle as an FO for 7+ years when the pay at AA is so freaking low! This is complete BS! What is it with AMR? They don't even have a flow threw program, so where is the incentive?

preparing for all the flame BS... please refrain, I am only wondering about the pay situation, not all the political stuff. Thanks.

It's not an alter ego. That would mean that if TSA did ok the flying, they would then be flying for an alter ego. It's a different airline. ALPA sued but a judge determined it to NOT be an alter ego. The issue with everyone is not the actual airline Gojet, it's the pilots.

As far as pay, hulas didn't have any money. Remember TS is a private company. He did have a ********************ty proposal with only a few dollars pay raise for flying 16 more people. He told them, in exchange for an approval, he would promise them a better contract down the road. Basically a take it now and fix it later scenario. TSA didn't believe him and now TSA is in the ********************ter because of that mistake. Gojet as promised, got their contract in about 1.5 years but negotiations statrted pretty much a few months after the airline was established. Yes, in prinicple Hulas should not have done it but TSA basically gave him no choice. If you know TSA, there is a very very negative pilot/management relations and it's no accident that 2005 happened. It was all or nothing, no negotiations by the pilots and time was running out for hulas to start manning the CRJs. The defeated TSA pilots who brought this upon themselves, continue to refuse the fact that they made a mistake in refusing the flying. They see what the end result has been a that is why to this day we still have threads like this. The ultimate irony is that I hear they now want to form a single seniority list with the current negotiations. It took them 3.5 years.

You make your decision on Gojet.
 
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Motive Flow

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a few years ago TSA got a UAL contract to fly 70 seaters. Hulas told his pilots (TSA) that they would have to fly 70 seaters for 50 seat pay. Pilots said no we have 70 seat rates in our contract. Hulas forms new airline and tells TSA guys that they can go over to new airline (gojets) and basically start over. A majority of TSA stand strong and say no. However some skumbags don't and step over their brothers (on the necks of senior pilots) for a shot at pic and a big 70 seat jet. TSA guys have been getting screwed since.

I don't care if gojets get paid $1,000,000 per second to fly the 700. what they did is unexcuseable.


Pretty much covers it. Nice job.:beer:

Only clarification: There were no specific 70 seat rates. The contract says that if a new A/C type comes on the property, the pay rate would be industry average. This was obviously a problem for management.:rolleyes:
 
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:nuts: :nuts: :nuts: :nuts: :nuts:

I'm going anywhere that pays $1,000,000.00 a second.

:nuts: :nuts: :nuts: :nuts: :nuts:
 

Salukipilot4590

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Only clarification: There were no specific 70 seat rates. The contract says that if a new A/C type comes on the property, the pay rate would be industry average. This was obviously a problem for management.:rolleyes:

Thats what I don't get...at all. How can a company seriously attempt to pay its employees less than industry average when the actual pay rates are so out in the open?

The things you learn in your youth.

I wish the best of luck to the OP and the rest of my TSA buds.
 

CX880

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Thats what I don't get...at all. How can a company seriously attempt to pay its employees less than industry average when the actual pay rates are so out in the open?

The things you learn in your youth.

I wish the best of luck to the OP and the rest of my TSA buds.

The problem is that they haven't. There are plenty of airlines out there that still pay their pilots below industry average. And the pay rates are out in the open. Basically in 05 they were offering current MESA CRJ7 pay.
 

Lynxman

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It's not an alter ego. That would mean that if TSA did ok the flying, they would then be flying for an alter ego. It's a different airline. ALPA sued but a judge determined it to NOT be an alter ego. The issue with everyone is not the actual airline Gojet, it's the pilots.

As far as pay, hulas didn't have any money. Remember TS is a private company. He did have a ********************ty proposal with only a few dollars pay raise for flying 16 more people. He told them, in exchange for an approval, he would promise them a better contract down the road. Basically a take it now and fix it later scenario. TSA didn't believe him and now TSA is in the ********************ter because of that mistake. Gojet as promised, got their contract in about 1.5 years but negotiations statrted pretty much a few months after the airline was established. Yes, in prinicple Hulas should not have done it but TSA basically gave him no choice. If you know TSA, there is a very very negative pilot/management relations and it's no accident that 2005 happened. It was all or nothing, no negotiations by the pilots and time was running out for hulas to start manning the CRJs. The defeated TSA pilots who brought this upon themselves, continue to refuse the fact that they made a mistake in refusing the flying. They see what the end result has been a that is why to this day we still have threads like this. The ultimate irony is that I hear they now want to form a single seniority list with the current negotiations. It took them 3.5 years.

You make your decision on Gojet.

Says the GJ skumbag.
 

Salukipilot4590

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The problem is that they haven't. There are plenty of airlines out there that still pay their pilots below industry average. And the pay rates are out in the open. Basically in 05 they were offering current MESA CRJ7 pay.

See...thats something I never thought about. The whole GJ thing is quite the conundrum to a new guy so you've got to excuse me if I come/came off ace-deuce in the past.

I'm still proud to think that a pilot group stood up to MGMT and said "NO" at least once in this industry, even if that basically meant the end of said group.
 

BigLebowski

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a few years ago TSA got a UAL contract to fly 70 seaters. Hulas told his pilots (TSA) that they would have to fly 70 seaters for 50 seat pay. Pilots said no we have 70 seat rates in our contract. Hulas forms new airline and tells TSA guys that they can go over to new airline (gojets) and basically start over. A majority of TSA stand strong and say no. However some skumbags don't and step over their brothers (on the necks of senior pilots) for a shot at pic and a big 70 seat jet. TSA guys have been getting screwed since.

I don't care if gojets get paid $1,000,000 per second to fly the 700. what they did is unexcuseable.

I used to work at TSA and though I don't believe the creation of GoJets was ethically right...The statement above is incorrect.
 

Lynxman

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See...thats something I never thought about. The whole GJ thing is quite the conundrum to a new guy so you've got to excuse me if I come/came off ace-deuce in the past.

I'm still proud to think that a pilot group stood up to MGMT and said "NO" at least once in this industry, even if that basically meant the end of said group.

Agreed
 

BigLebowski

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It's not an alter ego. That would mean that if TSA did ok the flying, they would then be flying for an alter ego. It's a different airline. ALPA sued but a judge determined it to NOT be an alter ego. The issue with everyone is not the actual airline Gojet, it's the pilots.

As far as pay, hulas didn't have any money. Remember TS is a private company. He did have a ********************ty proposal with only a few dollars pay raise for flying 16 more people. He told them, in exchange for an approval, he would promise them a better contract down the road. Basically a take it now and fix it later scenario. TSA didn't believe him and now TSA is in the ********************ter because of that mistake. Gojet as promised, got their contract in about 1.5 years but negotiations statrted pretty much a few months after the airline was established. Yes, in prinicple Hulas should not have done it but TSA basically gave him no choice. If you know TSA, there is a very very negative pilot/management relations and it's no accident that 2005 happened. It was all or nothing, no negotiations by the pilots and time was running out for hulas to start manning the CRJs. The defeated TSA pilots who brought this upon themselves, continue to refuse the fact that they made a mistake in refusing the flying. They see what the end result has been a that is why to this day we still have threads like this. The ultimate irony is that I hear they now want to form a single seniority list with the current negotiations. It took them 3.5 years.

You make your decision on Gojet.

this is pretty close to 100% accurate. I sat in the union meetings and listened. That very day I put my resume elsewhere and never looked back.
 

fr8r

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Not being a 121 guy has you sheltered. Doesn't even matter what Gojets pay is, they're an alter ego, period. And as for incentive at Eagle, all growth has been halted so it's better to be at a place with better pay/contract, than say, mesa. It's the guys that decide to go to Eagle instead of Gojet if offered both that offers hope that there's people left in this country that have principles.

I am far from sheltered... if you want to talk about what happens in the rest of the world, I'll be happy to let you know. It's just that I don't spend my life belly aching like some pilots... I work for a living in the 135 world. I get it done and don't complain about it. It was a legitimate question. I was just wondering what the gripe is... I hadn't even heard of this company until about 3 weeks ago.

Also, I mentioned that I knew how the company came to existence, alter-ego or not... it doesn't matter. (FYI, I tend to blame AMR) I would just like more clarification about this pay situation. It just looks to me like the pay is just the same low-ball pay like every other regional. So, who doesn't think all regionals don't pay enough? I certainly think the pay at all of them sucks. So that begs the question... all things being equal, what is different about gojets pay? enough of the political BS... someone answer the question. So far, CX880 seems to be on track, but hasn't really answered the question.
 

CX880

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Says the GJ skumbag.

Listen. Make sure you look over the before start checklist on that 172. Make sure tha vacum gauge is working. Ok. If you don't feel comfortable, just call the tower and ask them for directions in the pattern so that you can land ok? If you feel like you can't do it, just let me know ok? Otherwise for a pre-solo student you're doing fine. Don't worry about giving advice to the professional pilots out there you are not there yet, just focus on the 172 and make sure you don't have a vacum failure.
 
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Raskal

big member, little pay
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*sigh*
... So that begs the question... all things being equal, what is different about gojets pay? enough of the political BS... someone answer the question. So far, CX880 seems to be on track, but hasn't really answered the question.

Oh young jedi, soon you'll understand the power of the "gojet thread on FI" force...
 
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