True or False: Focus Air starting a PFT 747 program.

[Clyde]

Clyde my friend, I think you must be confused. It wasn't all that turbine time that helped you. I just had to be the 3/4 semester you spent at Riddle. Yeah, that's it.

LOL!!!, you're right!! I guess every little bit does help.

 

[FearlessFreep]

PFE's by definition are A & P's. They have signoff capabilities (RII) that allow dispatch of the aircraft at outstations when maintenance is performed on systems relating to RVSM. Additionally they have the ability to perform "M" (maintenance actions) items in the DDPG (MEL), that will allow further dispatch of the aircraft without having other maintenance personnel available. These cannot be accomplished by an SO.

For the most part and I speak in generalities PFE's are dedicated to being Engineers. Second Officers are looking forward and to the right. Mostly just looking at when they are going to upgrade off the panel.

I have been on the panel myself, have flown with PFE's and SO's. The PFE's for the most part have been very consistent in their professionalism. The SO's have been a very different story. I have had one's that have flamed out engines on takeoff, and other's that were as good or better than the best PFE's. When I was on the panel I was as conscientious, dedicated and as professional as I could be. Unfortunately that is not always the case with all SO's.

I know a PFE that last I heard is in training at Focus and will be a Check Airman. I assure you he will make short work of any SO's that aren't going to put in a maximum effort.

 

[b757driver]

Sounds like a bad joke to me. For all the hoopla presented by the Diddle folks, that in NO way prepares you for either the 747 panel or the international flying. There IS a BIG difference between training and experience. You can be the "best" trained in the world but if you don't have the experience, frankly, you don't have a clue! I'm sure the check airman FE will have his hands full if this comes to being. Maybe as a former chief FE on Air Force One, he can lick 'em in to shape.
I certainly concur with those who say that this airplane is a systems plane and the FE is the king and the one the Capt relies on. I know, I qualified a few months ago and can tell you unequivocally that it were no picnic!! Maybe because of 10 years of glass experinece going back to steam guages and a 3-man crew. It IS very different - if you don't have the EXPERIENCE.

 

[kevdog]

Kevdog,

You are absolutely correct. However, the level of knowledge the older PFE's had when they started was a lot deeper than what the newbies have. All of the PFE's I've flown with started out as mechanics.

Clyde, I have learned alot from PFE's and yes, I feel more comfortable flying with a PFE that has experience rather than a new guy without an A&P, but if one has the desire to learn the aircraft and do their job well, anyone can run the panel like a PFE, with a little time.

On the 727, the person who taught me the most was a 65 year old with 30+ years experience on the plane. He sat through every seat and then retired sitting sideways. He however, is not a mechanic.

 

[rvsm410]

Focus Deal with ERAU also noted in April Issue of Flying mag..page 65....

 

[Clyde]

Clyde, I have learned alot from PFE's and yes, I feel more comfortable flying with a PFE that has experience rather than a new guy without an A&P, but if one has the desire to learn the aircraft and do their job well, anyone can run the panel like a PFE, with a little time.

On the 727, the person who taught me the most was a 65 year old with 30+ years experience on the plane. He sat through every seat and then retired sitting sideways. He however, is not a mechanic.

Kevdog,

I probably should have worded my response a little differently, I did not intend to make it sound like the PFE was smarter because of the A&P.

In my experience, both as a previous FE and watching others go through the training, has been that a solid knowledge of systems and/or the desire to learn systems (and a slight mechanical inclination) is an absolute must. Having no prior knowledge of the level of experience of these prospective SO's, I can't say for sure if they will be good at what they do or not. But, knowing that the position is only for 6 months followed by the right seat soon thereafter, I would find it plausible that the upgrade would be the biggest thing on their minds. Having traveled internationally on the 747 previously, I as front seater would feel more comfortable with a seasoned engineer sitting behind me.

 

[kevdog]

Kevdog,

I probably should have worded my response a little differently, I did not intend to make it sound like the PFE was smarter because of the A&P.

In my experience, both as a previous FE and watching others go through the training, has been that a solid knowledge of systems and/or the desire to learn systems (and a slight mechanical inclination) is an absolute must. Having no prior knowledge of the level of experience of these prospective SO's, I can't say for sure if they will be good at what they do or not. But, knowing that the position is only for 6 months followed by the right seat soon thereafter, I would find it plausible that the upgrade would be the biggest thing on their minds. Having traveled internationally on the 747 previously, I as front seater would feel more comfortable with a seasoned engineer sitting behind me.

Clyde, hey we agree on something, lol! FYI, I believe the FE position is for a year, already after a year of being a flight follower and office biotch. Am I wrong to think if you have a DC-9 type (with line experience or not), you should already have at least a mediocre knowledge of transport category systems, if not a good understanding? Going through another 4-6 weeks of systems training, SIT, and Sims, I'd think they should do ok.

 

[General Lee]

Great advertising for Empty Nipple.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[kevdog]

Great advertising for Empty Nipple.



Bye Bye---General Lee

Yeah, if ya gat aitty grand to blow!

 

[Snakum]

I would find it plausible that the upgrade would be the biggest thing on their minds.

No doubt this was foremost in their minds, but geez ... that's a lot of money to play pylut. I will never understand that mindset. Maybe cuz I've never had THAT kind of money.

Innywho ... back in 2000 I talked to a guy who was hired as an FE on a DC-8 at 500 hours. This was back when many regionals were picking up anyone with a CPL/ME and a pulse, and no one wanted the job (it was beneath them?). He took the job, they got him thru his FE ticket and DC-8 training, and a couple years later he was in the FO seat. Prolly a Captain by now. But my point is ... according to this guy, who did it at 500 hours and had nothing bigger then a few hours of Seneca time, it wasn't that big of a deal.

Of course, he'd have been sucking wind if they got stuck with a limping engine or a wonky hydraulic system in the middle of NoWhere, Nicaragua. They'd wish they had an old-hand FE with an A&P on board.

But for just FE'ing it, as he says ... "It ain't brain surgury."

Minh