True or False: Focus Air starting a PFT 747 program.

[PCL_128]

You must face the facts whether you want to or not. Embry-Riddle graduates are a completely different product than a 500 hour CFI who has only been knocking around the pattern with overweight 40 year old lawyers. We are trained as AIRLINE PILOTS from the beginning. If you have only instructed or flown freight you probably are not ready for the panel of a 74. But an Embry-Riddle graduate IS. Those are the facts. Like it or not.

MR

Ahhh, I see TRAINING/8HRRULE has returned. Dude, don't you get bored just trying to p!ss people off all the time?

 

[ERAU2GIA]

No I do not work in the training department nor do I have anything to do with making the rules at any airline. I am just a pilot. And I am not trying to $$$$ anyone off. I responded to this post because I cannot sit by and watch ERAU get bashed for the 100th time. Our training is such that we are afforded many opportunities in the industry that others are not. This is not an accident. It happens for a reason. Our training. It's very simple. Our training is more thorough than any other organization and those who cannot toe the line are not kept at ERAU. Only the cream walks across the stage. I'm sure UND thinks the same about their school too. And they should. We should all believe we went to the best school and had the best training and we should defend our institutions from badly informed opinions. But the real truth is that graduates of ERAU, UND, a a few other places are a cut above and so we get opportunities others don't. Don't blame me. I didn't make the rules. I'm just trying to play by them.

MR

 

[slowto250]

No I do not work in the training department nor do I have anything to do with making the rules at any airline. I am just a pilot. And I am not trying to $$$$ anyone off. I responded to this post because I cannot sit by and watch ERAU get bashed for the 100th time. Our training is such that we are afforded many opportunities in the industry that others are not. This is not an accident. It happens for a reason. Our training. It's very simple. Our training is more thorough than any other organization and those who cannot toe the line are not kept at ERAU. Only the cream walks across the stage. I'm sure UND thinks the same about their school too. And they should. We should all believe we went to the best school and had the best training and we should defend our institutions from badly informed opinions. But the real truth is that graduates of ERAU, UND, a a few other places are a cut above and so we get opportunities others don't. Don't blame me. I didn't make the rules. I'm just trying to play by them.

MR

Well then, I would like to take this opportunity to retract my previous sarcastic response.....and congratulate you, on your recent promotion to admissions recruiter.

 

[Cardenal]

Good luck to them

I think it is a wonderful opportunity....and I hope they take advantage of it. They will have to work very, very, very hard, but I can't see why they can't succeed. CAPT has placed people at ASA, Focus and somewhere else (one of the USAir regionals, I can't recall which). Evidently, these companies like what they see. They are doing well for a brand new program with a new way of thinking about how to train pilots. These people have gotten to their objective (airlines) without wasting time and without risking license, life, and limb going the CFI route!! I wish I had avoided THAT pain in the butt. And they get seniority, pay, etc sooner than via the traditional route, so they can begin to pay back their loans much sooner.

Again, good luck. I'll be curious to see how they do.

 

[Jolly]

You must face the facts whether you want to or not. Embry-Riddle graduates are a completely different product than a 500 hour CFI who has only been knocking around the pattern with overweight 40 year old lawyers. We are trained as AIRLINE PILOTS from the beginning. If you have only instructed or flown freight you probably are not ready for the panel of a 74. But an Embry-Riddle graduate IS. Those are the facts. Like it or not.

MR

Apparently your lack of EXPERIENCE blinds you. The only fact about the pilots you refer to is that they DON'T have enough EXPERIENCE for worldwide operations outside the pristine environment of academia and forgiving aviation environment in the States.

You might be interested to check out what insurance rates are for people with your EXPERIENCE level and find out WHY.

 

[CapnVegetto]

Do any corporate guys out there see that many 400 hour buy-a-job programs for Gulfstreams and Hawkers? HELL NO. Because insurance companies won't touch them. They're smart enough to know that training is just training, and NOTHING can equal experience. Any jacka$$ can pass any checkride if you give him enough chances. If some 250 hour pilot goes out and passes a B747 checkride after a few hours in a sim (by some miracle of God), do you honestly think he/she is ready to sit in the left seat of a B747 and manage a crew? HELL NO. Is it legal? Sure. Is it completely f-ing stupid? Yep.

**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** PFT guys piss me off.

 

[Whiskerbizkit]

You must face the facts whether you want to or not. Embry-Riddle graduates are a completely different product than a 500 hour CFI who has only been knocking around the pattern with overweight 40 year old lawyers. We are trained as AIRLINE PILOTS from the beginning. If you have only instructed or flown freight you probably are not ready for the panel of a 74. But an Embry-Riddle graduate IS. Those are the facts. Like it or not.

MR

Christ they fly a 172 and they think they are space shuttle drivers! No wonder you Riddle guys get picked on. Hope that $20,000 private was worth it.

 

[Flywrite]

Man this guy is just precious. Makes me wish I had some CRJ Sim time just like him.As I said before, I've flown with some sharp Riddle guys. As a rule they were the ones who knew that they left Riddle not knowing squat. The "other kind"...well I've flown with 50 hr Grannies who know more than they did in the real world.

 

[Cardenal]

Good point about experience...but how do you define it? Purely in terms of (numbers of) hours? Any reasonable person can agree that a lot of the time we build is just that...time we build, without having anything particularly valuable happen as the minute hand sweeps by.

And, finally...what about operations such as Lufthansa (and others) that have ab-initio pilots in the right seat of heavies in global operations? Works for them, it seems.

What I think is that a lot of us came up the hard way and we don't like it when others don't suffer as much as we did ("you must pay your dues, kid....I did and by golly you shall too").

I just can't think that way.

just my .02

 

[Stinkbug]

You must face the facts whether you want to or not. Embry-Riddle graduates are a completely different product than a 500 hour CFI who has only been knocking around the pattern with overweight 40 year old lawyers. We are trained as AIRLINE PILOTS from the beginning. If you have only instructed or flown freight you probably are not ready for the panel of a 74. But an Embry-Riddle graduate IS. Those are the facts. Like it or not.

MR

Man, I know you really believe what you're saying, and I commend you for standing up for what you believe. One of these days, though, after you've got a little working experience under your belt, I predict you will look back on that post and feel an urgent need to change your screen name.

 

[inline]

You must face the facts whether you want to or not. Embry-Riddle graduates are a completely different product than a 500 hour CFI who has only been knocking around the pattern with overweight 40 year old lawyers. We are trained as AIRLINE PILOTS from the beginning. If you have only instructed or flown freight you probably are not ready for the panel of a 74. But an Embry-Riddle graduate IS. Those are the facts. Like it or not.

MR

I don't like your "facts." ERAU pilots are no better than anyone else.

 

[Freight Dog]

How does one get trained from the beginning to be an airline pilot while flying a 172? Better yet, how does Fiddly-Diddle prepare you for the panel? You use FE's on your 172's?

 

[kevdog]

Wow, just checked out the CAPT program details. **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**, it's more expensive than Comair, or whatever it is called now. $80k later, and 4 grads get a 1 year office job at a start-up acmi, then a 1-year panel job, and finally a to the right seat. Man, that's rolling the dice. If the company makes it for the next 3 years, I guess it could be a great experience.

I am a little curious why people on this board think you need years of experience to operate a panel. If you can pass your pc, you can operate the panel.

Oh, the best ERAU pilot expertise I have ever seen was in Deland. There were about 10 ERAU planes in a ERAU congo line waiting for takeoff during light and variable winds. One genius decided to switch the pattern after a wind change, and all 10 planes taxied to the other side of the airport. That was one of the funniest things I have ever seen!

 

[kevdog]

oh, sorry...didn't know d a m n was a bad word. Am I going to get put in the penalty box for that one?

 

[FearlessFreep]

The 74 is an engineers airplane. Would you really want to fly with a brandy new SO on the panel instead of a good old crusty PFE?

Give the PFE's a job instead.

 

[Clyde]

The 74 is an engineers airplane. Would you really want to fly with a brandy new SO on the panel instead of a good old crusty PFE?

Give the PFE's a job instead.

I would like to be there to see their first hydraulic failure in the sim. Maybe even the first time they fail the flaps and gear on them. Losing that second engine on the go-around should be interesting too.

I'm with you. With the type of flying that Focus is intending on performing, a PFE OR a person with previous turbine engine experience should be a must. Do these people know that during the preflight if the Captain has an MEL question they are the one's he/she will be looking at?

 

[kevdog]

The 74 is an engineers airplane. Would you really want to fly with a brandy new SO on the panel instead of a good old crusty PFE?

Give the PFE's a job instead.

Sure, a PFE with a lot of experience is much better than a newbie, but even those old PFE's had to start on the plane at some point in their career. Am I wrong?

 

[Clyde]

You must face the facts whether you want to or not. Embry-Riddle graduates are a completely different product than a 500 hour CFI who has only been knocking around the pattern with overweight 40 year old lawyers. We are trained as AIRLINE PILOTS from the beginning. If you have only instructed or flown freight you probably are not ready for the panel of a 74. But an Embry-Riddle graduate IS. Those are the facts. Like it or not.

MR

Here's a fact: I went to ERAU in Daytona for 3/4 of a semester. It was nothing like it was advertised, the facilities were not impressive at all, and I did not find it to be the "Harvard of the skies" like the ads claimed it to be. I had already sunk in ONE semesters worth of tuition, and didn't care about finishing up the semester, I couldn't wait to leave town.

My academic advisor (his initials were N.C. and he was half-deaf from flying Lears) told me I was making a mistake and that the airlines would never hire me. Guess what? I got hired by one and have 5 years seniority. And, I did it all without that ERAU golden-wings degree. I went to a state-university back home and graduated in 4 years.

"We are trained as AIRLINE PILOTS from the beginning."
Beginning of what? There is only one thing ERAU students have in common with airline pilots: the amount of money a senior wide-body captain makes in one year is equivalent to the amount of money one wastes at ERAU in 4.

"If you have only instructed or flown freight you probably are not ready for the panel of a 74. But an Embry-Riddle graduate IS. Those are the facts. Like it or not."
I instructed for 18 months. I flew freight for 3 years. Then, I was hired into the panel on the 747 and did that for two years. Didn't have any problems. I wonder if having 2,000 hours of turbine experience had anything to do with that.

I'll say this much: an ERAU could probably get through SO training on the 747 if they have a solid understanding of aircraft systems. And by that, I don't mean being able to decipher with great detail the differences between a C-172N and a C-172P. And notice I said SO and not specifically FE. The Riddle people could probably stumble through enough to learn procedures, but I highly doubt they would know what was happening when the switches are pulled. Also, I doubt very highly they could survive the right seat initially, mostly due to attitude. First, they don't have any people with real-world experience at Riddle. Second, the use of the phrase "well at Riddle they taught us....." would surely wash them out.

 

[Clyde]

Sure, a PFE with a lot of experience is much better than a newbie, but even those old PFE's had to start on the plane at some point in their career. Am I wrong?

Kevdog,

You are absolutely correct. However, the level of knowledge the older PFE's had when they started was a lot deeper than what the newbies have. All of the PFE's I've flown with started out as mechanics.

 

[PCL_128]

I instructed for 18 months. I flew freight for 3 years. Then, I was hired into the panel on the 747 and did that for two years. Didn't have any problems. I wonder if having 2,000 hours of turbine experience had anything to do with that.

Clyde my friend, I think you must be confused. It wasn't all that turbine time that helped you. I just had to be the 3/4 semester you spent at Riddle. Yeah, that's it.