Travis Barker - 4 killed, 2 hurt as rock star's jet crashes

[notapilot]

I guess they were trying to abort. This info from The Star news.


National Transportation Safety Board member Debbie Hersman said Sunday that crew members told air traffic controllers they heard a tire burst and tried to abort the takeoff Friday night.
The cockpit voice recorder that was recovered Saturday is bringing new insight into what may have caused the crash. Officials weren't certain the data on the recorder would yield any big clues into what may have happened.
"As you know, there was a serious post-crash fire that occurred after the accident," Hersman said. "So, we are not certain whether or not there is any usable information on the cockpit voice recorder. We will have to wait until we get it into our lab in Washington to audition it and find out."
However, NSTB officials say the recordings are helping them piece together the moments before the crash.
"The crew attempted to reject the takeoff, but was unable to stop the aircraft before it departed the runway," Hersman said.

 

[LJPilot]

I was mistaken earlier. Both squat switches must be in ground mode to get any thrust reverse deployment. I shouldn't post when I'm tired.

 

[WTF]

Do any 60 crews know if there was a mod for this problem? It would have probably been in the last 5 years.

I have not heard of a mod, addressing or fixing this "problem" Last year in fact it was again brought up in recurrent and the instructor was emphasizing the importance of alertness as to what the aircraft is doing in this situation. He says 'You need to recognize quickly that the aircraft is in flight mode because the squats are shot and do what you can to either lay the piggy backs down and push the levers up and go, or pull everything back and get stopped.

IMO, if there is a mod, relocate the squats and the wiring harness that bends out in front of the mains, maybe behind. That would have taken the deer out of the equation.

 

[CFI4LIFE]

The anti-skid/brakes should work on either the inboards or outboards as long as one squat switch is in ground mode. Of course your sim scenario just sucks... I hope it didn't happen to these guys.

The autospoilers would only work with one squat switch out if it had a spin-up kit... however with just ONE switch in ground mode you can manually deploy the spoilers.

And if they were aborting they SHOULD have deployed the spoilers manually which SHOULD work regardless of squat switch position. A hydraulic failure would, however, cause all sorts of problems. Bad deal no matter what happened.

 

[starcheckdriver]

It is a very real possibility that the T/Rs were in a MEL status and strapped for this flight. The lack of T/R use may have nothing to do with a squat switch problem.

 

[LJ45]

we know they where probably stowed when the airplane came to a stop, they could have stowed when the gear came off at the end of the runway. Sure wish we knew if they ever deployed and if emergency brakes where used ...etc.
In time, I guess the info will trickle out.

 

[bizjet800]

Someone posted that there were men and equipment working in the area. As some might conclude, the contaminated runway seems to be the likely culprit. (I know no one knows for sure, yet) It sounds just like the Concorde accident. These airport workers need to do a much better job of clearing the runway!

I was flying a Hawker over the Gulf of Mexico heading to Tampa when we lost all hydraulic pressure and quantity. No big deal, we hand pumped the gear down and used the T/Rs to get it stopped (they used pneumatic pressure to activate). After we landed I heard on the radio that there was a “large chunk” of debris found on the runway. I inspected the aircraft and, expecting to see a big hole near the engine, found nothing was missing. When we got back to the FBO I asked what was found and they said it was a big fire hydrant nozzle had fallen of a fire truck! This would have brought down any airplane. Bottom line, we can all Monday-morning-quarterback this situation but if there is debris on the runway at night, there is virtually no way to avoid it. This plane was likely doomed due to complacent airport workers. They blew that tire at the worst possible time. Had they continued, they may not have ever made it to V1, then gone off the end of the runway at a higher speed and killed everyone. Of course they tried to stop and look what happened! Sounds like they did everything they were trained to do. My hats off to the crew and I pray I never have to make this decision in the time it takes to say “Lear 60.”

 

[Publishers]

As with any emergency, there is a period of time to recognize what is going on. From the reports, they heard what was the blown tire. Still tires fail with consequences, sometimes small, sometimes large. By the time you realize that the failure is serious, let's say both tires taken out, you have steering problems, and you are aborting putting additional stress on remaining tires.
Guessing only from the witness accounts, we had an aircraft on rim with considerable sparks. No crew wants to be in this scenario. High speed abort not very attractive at night, if you make it intothe air, back around and likely belly landing. SOP's are great and valuable, in this case, reaction is critical and even then outcome not assured.

 

[CFI4LIFE]

I pray I never have to make this decision in the time it takes to say “Lear 60.”

I couldn't agree more!

RIP

 

[cjdriver]

This was a judgement call at the time. No way to second guess it. What can be learned though is to have clearly in your mind what you will abort for. I like the mental image I got from a previous post of a good wing, two good engines, and a lot of energy means you're going. RIP

 

[uscpilot]

The mod that I mentioned earlier does exist. Not sure of the date or SB# I was not able to obtain that today. I did converse with a 60 maint guy. TR deployment with mod requires either both squat switches or one squat switch with 40kts wheel speed. It is incorperated on all late model 60's. Not sure of the starting serial number. With out mod then it does take both squat switches.
notapilot,
I wasnt trying to take issue. I am embarrased to say that that was the first time I had read the JJ report. I asked the same tech that I referenced above about the NTSB's findings (90 some odd % unstead of the 85% max allowed in reverse) and it did not make sense to him. If the TR stowed with the piggybacks still up the FADEC should have gone to idle.

 

[LJ45]

The mod that I mentioned earlier does exist. Not sure of the date or SB# I was not able to obtain that today. I did converse with a 60 maint guy. TR deployment with mod requires either both squat switches or one squat switch with 40kts wheel speed. It is incorperated on all late model 60's. Not sure of the starting serial number. With out mod then it does take both squat switches.
notapilot,
I wasnt trying to take issue. I am embarrased to say that that was the first time I had read the JJ report. I asked the same tech that I referenced above about the NTSB's findings (90 some odd % unstead of the 85% max allowed in reverse) and it did not make sense to him. If the TR stowed with the piggybacks still up the FADEC should have gone to idle.

The accident aircraft, because of serial number, came with the mod. I looked up the SB (SB60-78-7) and it applies to serial # 276 and earlier, so this one would have it. It is a recommend SB originally release 2005, with a revision in 2006.

 

[Ticker]

Just heard...

The throttles were reportedly found in the full forward position. Not much more that we haven't heard before.

This is very much preliminary info. No further details. Sorry...wish I had more. Doesn't make sense to me either.

 

[Club ORD FO]

well, that could have happened after the final impact into the hill.

 

[Ticker]

well, that could have happened after the final impact into the hill.

Agreed. That or a firefighter working the scene. The FDR will tell the story for sure. They're pretty confident the FDR is intact.

Pretty chilling.