Travis Barker - 4 killed, 2 hurt as rock star's jet crashes

[deadstick]

92 miles and hour? min takeoff speed? is that an accurate quote?

Oh I am sure it is accurate. Since 92 mph is 80kts, I guess she heard an 80 kts airspeed callout and then the pop on the CVR.

 

[AirplanesSuck]

92 miles and hour? min takeoff speed? is that an accurate quote?

If anyone tried to take off in a 60 at 92 mph, we'd be having another accident discussion. V1 is usually 115-125 knots and Vr is usually 125 to 135 knots. The minimum rotation speed is like 120 knots if you don't have any payload or fuel. Was that a media eff-up? They know nothing.

Maybe she did say it and meant "high-speed regime" or something.

 

[LJ45]

According to the PTM, that is inaccurate. The PTM states that the "Left squat switch controls outboard wheel brakes; right squat switch controls inboard wheel brakes."

see my edited previous post, if you lose the tire and reverse function with half the brakes remaining, then grab the emer. brake....well it is bad and gets worse with more tires blown! Almost impossible for the pilots to get it stopped.

 

[AirplanesSuck]

see my edited previous post, if you lose the tire and reverse function with half the brakes remaining, then grab the emer. brake....well it is bad and gets worse with more tires blown! Almost impossible for the pilots to get it stopped.

You bet. The 60 is a strange little bird. Tragic accident... I think this was the first fatal 60 accident? (at least in the US).

 

[LJPilot]

92 miles and hour? min takeoff speed? is that an accurate quote?

No. V1 in the Lear 60 for their approximate weight would be around 130 knots, with Vr around 140 knots. The quote may be accurate, but the speeds are not.

 

[NYG-Flyer]

According to the PTM, that is inaccurate. The PTM states that the "Left squat switch controls outboard wheel brakes; right squat switch controls inboard wheel brakes."

I can't speak for the 60 but the 31A if you lose one transducer the opposing one shuts down so you don't have antiskid on one side and not on the other..

 

[AirplanesSuck]

I can't speak for the 60 but the 31A if you lose one transducer the opposing one shuts down so you don't have antiskid on one side and not on the other..

That's possible... I'll have to acks around. But the way the 60 says it's set up you get anti-skid on left and right sides, but only to the inboards or outboards (depending on which squat switch you lose).

 

[LJPilot]

If one squat switch fails, the other squat switch still should be in ground mode. You would lose half of your antiskid (inboard or outboard), and you should be able to get one T/R out. The autospoilers must have both squat switches in ground mode to work, but the spoilers should work manually. If one squat switch is in ground mode, any movement of the spoiler lever past arm will fully deploy them. If both squat switch were in air mode, then the spoilers will go to whatever position selected with the lever.

 

[FlyingPieceOfSt]

Ack!

All I know is Debbie Hersman is hot. She can brief me any day.

Have you been drinking rocket fuel again?

She looks like Hillary at a younger age.

She is the one in the last picture.


http://www.flightsafety.org/photo_gallery.html

 

[AirplanesSuck]

Have you been drinking rocket fuel again?

She looks like Hillary at a younger age.

She is the one in the last picture.


http://www.flightsafety.org/photo_gallery.html

May I respectfully request that you guys limit your discussions on this thread to the accident or those lost in it?

 

[say again]

Have you been drinking rocket fuel again?

She looks like Hillary at a younger age.

She is the one in the last picture.


http://www.flightsafety.org/photo_gallery.html

UGHHHH!!! Rocket fuels will not help her in the looks department. I would need some mind altering drugs, ie. lcd, pcp, shrooms taken all at once.



Seriously, it's finally great to read a thread that doesn't get into a bash fest (except for 1 or 2 posts). Alot of great info being shared. Hopefully, this info will help someone in the future.

 

[notapilot]

In J.J. LR60 accident the TRs were deployed, but after the squat switch was lost the buckets stowed. What was thought was reverse thrust was actually forward thrust. This might not be the case here, but looks awfully similiar. It appears they maintained centerline, they departed the perimeter fence at what was described as a fast rate of speed and the TRs appeared to be stowed. I really hate jumping to conclusions, but it fits. Thoughts and prayers to all the families.


Normal operating procedures include deploying the thrust reversers within 4 to 6 seconds after landing. Pilots deploy thrust reversers (T/R) by raising piggyback levers located in the cockpit with the throttles. With the loss of the squat switch on the left main landing gear, the T/R relay box deenergized the deploy solenoid and the T/R's go to the stow position. The electronic engine control (EEC) commands the engine speed to go to idle. As the T/R's complete the stow cycle, the unlock switches open, signaling the T/R relay box to remove the discrete signals. The EEC's switch to the forward thrust schedule and within 2.6 seconds estimated, and if the piggybacks remain at the max reverse position the engines rpm begins to increase to near takeoff power.

 

[Texanflyboy]

I personally knew Captain James Bland!!! He was a stand up guy. My heart goes out to his family, friends, and passengers. I didn't have the pleasure of knowing Captain Sarah Lemmon as she flew for Global Exec.
James was always willing to help you out with what ever it may be. Especially us young Captains. He had tons of experience that's hard to be matched, from flying for CBP to EJM and just starting with us in our Lear 60. James was brother you listened to!

He was retired from CBP though which I think is even worse. Here he is, living the good life..flying contract whenever he wants in his retirement! 52 years old (I didn't even know how old he was until this, he would never say b/c he really looked younger...always had that cop attitude though..lol) you show up to the airport for a trip and you don't have a clue about what's going to happen in the course of this trip.

I'm not a very religous person, but makes me want to make things right with that man upstairs! This crap happens to the best of us and you never know when it's your time!

RIP Captain Sarah Lemmon and Captain James Bland. You, your families and your passengers that parished, will be deeply missed. It's not your fault, it can happen to any of us out there!

God Speed,
Bryan

 

[deadstick]

Normal operating procedures include deploying the thrust reversers within 4 to 6 seconds after landing. Pilots deploy thrust reversers (T/R) by raising piggyback levers located in the cockpit with the throttles. With the loss of the squat switch on the left main landing gear, the T/R relay box deenergized the deploy solenoid and the T/R's go to the stow position. The electronic engine control (EEC) commands the engine speed to go to idle. As the T/R's complete the stow cycle, the unlock switches open, signaling the T/R relay box to remove the discrete signals. The EEC's switch to the forward thrust schedule and within 2.6 seconds estimated, and if the piggybacks remain at the max reverse position the engines rpm begins to increase to near takeoff power.

I assume this was cut/pasted from somewhere. If so, where. I cannot believe an aircraft would be designed like this. Who in the heck would think this is a good idea??? If the pilots wants to "stop," why should the engines be programmed to "go?"

Another question, can somebody describe the braking system aside from the antiskid?

 

[LJ45]

I assume this was cut/pasted from somewhere. If so, where. I cannot believe an aircraft would be designed like this. Who in the heck would think this is a good idea??? If the pilots wants to "stop," why should the engines be programmed to "go?"

Another question, can somebody describe the braking system aside from the antiskid?

Yes, from the NTSB from report for the Troy, AL Learjet 60 accident.