Travel Management-Elkhart IN. ????

[bell47]

Anyone know about these guys? Good, bad or otherwise? Their website is pretty limited.

 

[*#$% Headwinds]

From what I have heard, you are better off trying to go to a fractional. TMC does only Sentient work, and they don't pay any better than a Regional airline. At least at the regional you get uniforms, free parking and travel benefits to go with your regional airline salary.

 

[DA-20]

I only live about an hour from EKM. I sent many letters and even whent there once but I guess I didnt know the secret hand shake. Seemed like a small operation. Good luck.

 

[acapilot2003]

actually the pay at TMC is a lot better than a regional, and they're going to have around 20 airplanes by the end of this year.

 

[*#$% Headwinds]

Pay at TMC is $60,000 for a Beechjet Captain, $40,000 for an FO, better than a regional, but not a whole lot. Certainly not the $65,000 and $45,000 industry standards. Furthermore;

- $40/day per diem, while the industry is paying $50-$60.

- You buy your own uniforms. Usually free uniforms or an allowance are a given, unless for example, the pay is exceptional.

- $280/month for health, vision, dental for two...I pay $160/month for better coverage.

- You will pay for your own parking at the airport. This is an operational expense that the company should be expected to cover.

-8 on 6 off schedule, with no promises not to make you work on your 6 off.

-No vacation! They will shift schedules around to give you two 6 day rotations off in a row, but then screw you down the road to cover someone elses "vacation".

-If you are asked to work extra days, or you don't get home until a day into your "off" week, they don't pay you for the first two extra days you work each quarter. You get to work up to 8 uncompensated days per year!

- You will sign a 12 month training contract.

I am confused why a company that wants to grow is going to give second tier compensation. Pay second tier and you will get second tier people, the good ones won't hesitate to move on. Meanwhile, your customers will suffer because poorly paid people are not motivated to give exceptional service. They will just show up and "punch their tickets".

Suddenly a regional job doesn't sound so bad! Besides, you can move to the right seat of a major in 18 months! My friend who gave me this information is not planning on making a career of this place.

My advice is; don't waste your time on these people.

 

[*#$% Headwinds]

For anyone interested, I was informed that Travel Management finallly published a full pay scale, and apparently not many of the captains working there are happy about it. My friend would not have accepted the job there if he knew this up front. It seems they all expected better pay than FLOPs, but that isn't what they got. I don't have all the details but apparently, you will make more at Avantair. Like, year 3 Avantair pay is better than year 5 pay at TMC. By year nine you are making $95k at Avantair which you don't make until year 15 at TMC. Avantair tops out at $105 k at year twelve, while TMC tops out at $95 K at year 15! Plus Avantair gets $48/day per diem, vs only $40 at TMC. Don't they realize that this kind of pay is why FLOPs has Teamsters today? I hear that many pilots at TMC would welcome a union when they get big enough to attract one. Good luck guys!

 

[learflyer]

Headwinds, did your friend fly for the fracs?

 

[Skippy]

the place is shaky at best---its a joke

pay for parking to come to work? where do i sign-- dont even waste your time-- make them raise their pay and benes.

Skippy said so

 

[*#$% Headwinds]

Learflyer, no he was 135 but hoping to get in on the ground floor of something good. He (and everyone else) was thinking they would have to be competetive with NetJets, CShares, etc. when they sorted the salaries out. He is quite disappointed. He left a $65,000/yr job for TMC. The way he put it, he would never have taken the job if he had know that it would be 2013 before he was back to his 2006 pay level.

Welcome to Indiana, remember to set your clocks back a decade.

 

[jumppilot03]

Anyone interested in TMC should look at XOJET. With their newly planned expansion, the place could be a gem. And before you ask, No I don't work at either place.

 

[learflyer]

the place is shaky at best---its a joke

pay for parking to come to work? where do i sign-- dont even waste your time-- make them raise their pay and benes.

Skippy said so

Flops, CS, and if i'm not mistaken, Flexjet doesn't pay for parking either.

 

[skeeter666]

Does anyone have the latest pay raises? How does the 8/6 schedule work? Do you travel on wed and thursdays and have the rest off? If you are hired as a gear yanker, how long till upgrade? Thanks-

 

[*#$% Headwinds]

The word on the pay schedule is 3% per year, with 5% in your 4th and I think 7th year. In other words, you will never make any more than you make the year you are hired after inflation...pathetic if you ask me. doing the math:

Captain FO
yr 1 $60,000 $40,000
yr 2 $61,800 $41,200
yr 3 $63,654 $42,436
yr 4 $66,837 $44,558
yr 5 $68,842 $45,895
yr 6 $70,907 $47,272
yr 7 $74,452 $49,636
yr 8 $76,686 $51,125
yr 9 $78,987 $52,659
yr 10 $81,357 $54,239
yr 11 $83,798 $54,239
yr 12 $86,312 $54,239
yr 13 $88,901 $54,239
yr 14 $91,568 $54,239
yr 15 $94,315 $54,239

Apparently most of management are ex FLOPs people, so this must sound pretty good to them. You will make more money long term at; Avantair, FlexJet, CitationShares, XOJet, and NetJets FO's make more than TMC Captains (must be embarrassing). All of these places are currently hiring.

When I asked about upgrades, it seems no one has yet. Apparently they are hiring a lot of street captains from crummy 135 jobs that make TMC look good.

Weds is the travel day. A crew doesn't get to go home until the next crew shows up, so you leave home real early on Weds and get home real late the next Weds.

Oh, I was informed that FO raises stop at year 10 so I adjusted the chart to reflect that.

 

[emspilot 01]

Just Another 135 Charter Company

The chief pilot has just quit and more pilots are going to be leaving soon.I heard it started out being a good place to work until the recent pay schedule along with other company changes already posted on this website.Travel Management Company will be out of business in a matter of a year or until Sentient Jet gets tired of all their pilot turnover.This is my observation after seeing other companys go down the same path and being part of the Sentient Jet family.

 

[Lear Wanna Be]

- You will pay for your own parking at the airport. This is an operational expense that the company should be expected to cover.

I'm guessing you mean if you are commuting out of a gateway. There is nowhere at EKM that you have to pay for parking. Agreed though, if half of your per diem each day gets sucked up by parking back at ORD, then that really sucks. Also, I understand that brokered trips don't yield tips too often either. I guess they actually tell the customer not to do it .

 

[ManChild]

I'm guessing you mean if you are commuting out of a gateway. There is nowhere at EKM that you have to pay for parking. Agreed though, if half of your per diem each day gets sucked up by parking back at ORD, then that really sucks. Also, I understand that brokered trips don't yield tips too often either. I guess they actually tell the customer not to do it .

We don't have Domiciles, so you can live anywhere. Yes you do have to pay for parking, but you don't have to fly out of ORD. As far as "brokered trips" we stay really busy. 8/6 is the schedule. Wednesdays are always your travel day. If you volunteer to fly on your day off, they offer $300 a day.

 

[lionflyer]

R they still hiring? What's it take to get a call? I'm former 121 so I'm sure that doesn't help.

 

[BEfly]

I hear they are. Mostly Beechjets. Most of their business is Sentient Jet. 7 on/7 off is my buddy's schedule. Can live anywhere. Industry standard pay/benefits. Rapid growth. hope that helps

 

[learflyer]

I hear they are. Mostly Beechjets. Most of their business is Sentient Jet. 7 on/7 off is my buddy's schedule. Can live anywhere. Industry standard pay/benefits. Rapid growth. hope that helps

Oh yes, the buddy network. How can some have 8/6, and some 7/7?

 

[Corp Pilot]

Why did the chief pilot quit?
I thought that everyone was happy with the 8 and 6 schedule and all of the growth?

 

[skeeter666]

Chief pilot left for a job with more pay. How is it that some have 7/7 and other are 8/6?

 

[emspilot 01]

Travel Management Company

The Chief Pilot experienced burnout after working at the company for one year.They replaced his position with three pilots that were already working for them.
Most pilots are unhappy with the changes being made and will be leaving after their year contract has expired.
Any company that models themselves after Flight Options will eventually fail.

 

[*#$% Headwinds]

I hear they are. Mostly Beechjets. Most of their business is Sentient Jet. 7 on/7 off is my buddy's schedule. Can live anywhere. Industry standard pay/benefits. Rapid growth. hope that helps

Industry standard looks like this:

Quote:
All new hires will start on 18 day schedule pay. First year 18 day FO pay is 69,188 base pay.

7&7 Base Wage Table: PIC/ F/O & F/O Over 40K lbs.

1 $87,500........1 $56,875 $65,000
2 $90,563 .......2 $58,866 $67,275
3 $93,732 .......3 $63,738 $69,630
4 $97,013 .......4 $65,969 $72,067
5 $100,408 .....5 $68,278 $74,589
6 $103,923 .....6 $72,746 $77,200
7 $107,560 .....7 $75,292 $79,902
8 $111,324 .....8 $77,174 $82,698
9 $115,221 .....9 $79,104 $85,593
10 $119,254 ....10 $81,081 $88,588
11 $123,427
12 $127,747
13 $132,219
14 $136,846​

Base pay prior to OT, Holiday, Ext Days

15 Day Flex Base Wage Table: PIC F/O&/F/O Greater Than 40K lbs

1 $96,250 .........1 $62,563 $71,500
2 $99,619 .........2 $64,752 $74,003
3 $103,105 ........3 $70,112 $76,593
4 $106,714 ........4 $72,566 $79,273
5 $110,449 ........5 $75,105 $82,048
6 $114,315 ........6 $80,020 $84,920
7 $118,316 ........7 $82,821 $87,892
8 $122,457 ........8 $84,892 $90,968
9 $126,743 ........9 $87,014 $94,152
10 $131,179 ......10 $89,189 $97,447
11 $135,770
12 $140,522
13 $145,440
14 $150,531​

Base pay only...​

18 Day Fixed Base Wage Tables: PIC F/O& F/O Greater Than 40K lbs

1 $106,444 .......1 $69,188 $79,073
2 $110,169 .......2 $71,610 $81,840
3 $114,025 .......3 $77,537 $84,704
4 $118,016 .......4 $80,251 $87,669
5 $122,147 .......5 $83,060 $90,738
6 $126,422 .......6 $88,495 $93,913
7 $130,847 .......7 $91,593 $97,200
8 $135,426 .......8 $93,882 $100,602
9 $140,166 .......9 $96,229 $104,123
10 $145,072 ......10 $98,635 $107,768
11 $150,149
12 $155,405
13 $160,844
14 $166,473

Base pay only.



...not this:

Captain FO
yr 1 $60,000 $40,000
yr 2 $61,800 $41,200
yr 3 $63,654 $42,436
yr 4 $66,837 $44,558
yr 5 $68,842 $45,895
yr 6 $70,907 $47,272
yr 7 $74,452 $49,636
yr 8 $76,686 $51,125
yr 9 $78,987 $52,659
yr 10 $81,357 $54,239
yr 11 $83,798 $54,239
yr 12 $86,312 $54,239
yr 13 $88,901 $54,239
yr 14 $91,568 $54,239
yr 15 $94,315 $54,239

 

[Corp Pilot]

I have to laugh when pilots quote "Industry Standard" wages, then reference the highest pay rate scale they can find.
Also, the rate scale posted above references aircraft "over" 40k lbs and "greater than" 40k lbs. Last time I checked, Beech Jets were less than half that. I am not sure what the difference is between "over" and "greater than". I am a little slow sometimes.
I have found that there is no such thing as "industry standard". Pay rates, schedules, rules, morale and quality of life are not the same at any two flight departments. It is kind of like choosing a girl friend or wife. There are good ones, bad ones, fat ones and skinny ones. Some make alot of money and some have assets that money just can't buy. You try to find the one that best meets your goals, lifestyle and desires and hope for the best. If you don't like the job or woman you have, it is not their responsibility to conform to your wishes. Besides, since as pilots we are Gods gift to employers, there should be no shortage of employers who are just begging to pay us a fortune and let us set our own schedules.............right?
We all know the grass is greener on the other side...

 

[*#$% Headwinds]

You got it wrong Corp, the right column only is "F.O. over 40k lbs". The left two are all other jets (Capt/F.O.) including Beechjets and all Citations under 40k lbs. My complaint is that companies like this and all the regionals have driven salaries down so low that truck drivers make more money than jet pilots. They would have you believe that you should be paying them to fly. This is the reason that unions have become so popular at places where 10 years ago, the pilots themselves would have thrown a union rep out. At least NJA is finally paying pilots close to what they are worth.

 

[Corp Pilot]

Headwinds,
My mistake on the FO over 40k lbs column.
I stand by my assessment though. While Net Jets may start FOs at a salary in excess of $56k, I think you will struggle to make a case that this is industry standard or even average. If this is used as an "industry std" then ALL of the major pax airlines are hiring pilots below industry std and below that of many corporate and charter operators. The regionals and other companies that "create" jobs, are only doing what anyone trying to run a profitable business would do. Get the highest return for the lowest investment. Returns on investment in aviation are minimal if not negative in many cases. I am not trying to defend the wages, but I am attempting to justify them. As long as pilots will work for "below industry std" wages, businesses will employ them. We are all guilty of the same practice. We want the most we can get for our dollar. When you buy a car I will bet you don't pay more for extra airbags, or other safety features. You figure that any car you buy meets std government guidlines. Just as every pilot meets std government qualifications.
This being said, I believe that wages for pilots will increase significantly and continue to increase for the forseeable future. The supply and demand has seen a drastic course reversal. There are no longer a pool of qualified pilots. There is, however, a backlog of new aircraft being produced, baby boomers retiring and not enough pilots to keep up with the demand. I believe that you will see the top wages being paid to non-union, non airline or fractional pilots. People who own multi-million dollar aircraft are going to have to pay top wages to keep quality people. While the union pilots will do well and have the ability to maintain a good lifestyle, the corporate opportunities will produce the highest paid pilots.
As of today, the Net Jets pay scale is not (in my opinion) representative of "industry standard" pay. Over the next few years, I believe it will be.
Fly Safe

 

[*#$% Headwinds]

Major airlines do generally start salaries out low. However, that is not your lifelong salary. These poor TMC pilots are never going to make any more in real dollars than they make day one.

The idea that there is little ROI on aviation business is nothing new to pilots. It astounds me that people are willing to invest in aviation with the dismal earnings so common in the industry.

The problem I have with that is, the pilots and mechanics and other employees do not have the word "entrepreneur" in their job titles. It is wrong for investors to make money on the backs of employees. If a company cannot make money without screwing its employees, it has a faulty business plan. Maybe they ought to teach business people that the customer is supposed to be the source of profit, not the employees. If you cannot make a buck and pay your employees appropriately, then you need to charge your customers more. If you cannot charge your customers more, then you might be in the wrong business.

 

[Corp Pilot]

Many of these "entrepeneurs" are losing money but they continue to pay all of their employees. And if they decide that they are in the "wrong" business, as you suggest and shut down the operation, these employees who were receiving compensation are now out on the street. Any company that is up front with their pay rates and work schedules is not "screwing" the employees. They did not come to your home with a gun and say "You're a pilot and you need to work for me at this wage". Every employee sent a resume to the company and asked for a job based on the wages they offered. As a matter of fact, they wanted the job so bad that they signed a one year contract for the privilege to work there. Once employed at an agreed compensation, they want to make the employer change his business plan and lose even more money to increase their compensation. Sounds to me like the unethical people are not the employers.
My plan is for all pilots who think they are worth so much to band together and start their own airline. They can set the industry standard. Pay everyone alot of money, fly on their own schedule and live the dream. Since pilots are such a valuable asset and have all the answers, these airlines will probably be sprouting up all over. Maybe a better solution is: next time you are on a flight, talk to the passengers in back and tell them of your plight and your plan to have them pay more in order to provide you a pay raise.
Everyone sets their own value by accepting employment at an offered rate. If you are worth more, then why do you accept less? This is just basic economics not rocket science. Hillary Clinton probably has an entitlement plan that will help.
I don't work for TMC and never will. You can agree or disagree with their company wages and policies. The simple solution is not to work there.

 

[*#$% Headwinds]

You know what annoys me? When someone enters a debate without bothering to research the topic and then goes off on some "Hillary Clinton" tangent.

So, to save you the effort of going back to reread this thread, I'll recap:

1) TMC hired dozens of pilots BEFORE they published a full payscale. Those pilots took their positions assuming that the pay would be better than what it eventually was. Among those is a former co-worker of mine who said that he would never have taken the job had he known that and most pilots he knows have said the same thing.

2) I listed FIVE companies that ALL pay better than TMC with better benefits, all of which are hiring. The implication being, if you are interested in working at TMC, you might be better off looking at these companies, assuming that industry standard pay and benefits are what you seek.

3) If 5 out of 5 companies using a similar schedule and aircraft can survive paying better wages and benefits than TMC, one of two things is going on: a) They (TMC) are operating with a poor business plan or b) Someone is taking profit at the expense of the pilots (also known as SCREWING the pilots).

 

[Corp Pilot]

Someone is taking profit at the expense of the pilots (also known as SCREWING the pilots).

Headwinds,

I am sorry. You are right. Any company that strives to make profit, should not keep any of the profit that they RISKED millions of dollars for. Just give it to the employees who have zero invested in the business and nothing to lose. A pilot's license and college entitle you to endless wealth. The pilots that hired on probably did so without knowing what to expect as far as pay. It was probably a secret. They probably did no research and have no judgement. They are the victims. I would have thought a college education would prevent being taking advantage of by these bad people (Employers) The employer probably promised them six figures and a Net Jets pay scale. He probably asked the pilot, why are you thinking of working here? Why aren't you taking a job at one of the 5 other companies that Headwinds noted? They must not know you are available, otherwise your phone would be ringing off the hook. You are such a rare and valuable person. Wow... a pilot's license and a college degree. You are entitled. The bad employer who is going to invest an additional $20k-$40k per year in training these gifts to god should be grateful.
Some people are born to complain and they will no matter what. Others concentrate on doing the best job they can to make their employer profitable. A happy, profitable employer with good employees is more likely to take care of his crew. Employers with a bunch of winers, are happy to see the winers leave. What a relief.
Most of the jobs that I have accepted had no guarantee. A starting salary, some research and a little judgement has been my formula. I make well over 100k and put my employer first. I make sure they are provided safe transporation and excellent service. Strive to become an asset to your employer and not a wining liability. You get recognized for what you are.

Eventhough we have differing view points, I sincerely hope things work out for you and your friends. As I stated earlier, the supply and demand ratio is experiencing a big swing and pilots will see their value increase significantly. I appreciate the aviation owners being the entrepeneurs that they are. I hope they make lots of profit and buy bigger and better aircraft for all of us to fly. I do not condone their actions, I embrace them. Their risks and sacrifices make good paying jobs for good people a reality.

I certainly am not smart or motivated enough to create the wealth that supports these operations.

Take Care and Good Luck,
Corp Pilot