Travel Management, a danger to us all....

[ghostrider64]

When will this industry get some self worth? 200 pilots over there willing to work for peanuts. 15 days on? Perhaps your of some third world descent, willing to enslave yourselves. These guys are flying EJM and Netjets trips, are they flying FLOPs and FLEX trips too? Accident waiting to happen and the NBAA agrees with me.

Openly carrying maint envy discrepancies, because if you don't fly you don't get paid? FWIWI you don't get paid if your dead either.

http://www.nbaa.org/ops/safety/human-factors/fatigue/


Tell me where a 15 day schedule fits into the above.

One deadly accident is all it takes to destroy years of our industry building a reputation for safety above all else.

If ever there was a need for a union, Travel Management blazes the trail.

 

[V1 Rotate]

I assure you they're not doing Flexjet trips.

 

[ghostrider64]

You're lucky...

 

[dime line]

I assure you they're not doing Flexjet trips.

How can you make an exact statement like that?

 

[t-bone]

No commentary on TMC...but what do you base your opinion of the 15-day schedule on? If you use your fatigue policy when necessary, there's nothing unsafe about it. No fatigue policy? Then all bets are off

 

[JustPlaneTruth]

No commentary on TMC...but what do you base your opinion of the 15-day schedule on? If you use your fatigue policy when necessary, there's nothing unsafe about it. No fatigue policy? Then all bets are off

It is well recognized in among industry fatigue researchers that pilots are the own worst judge of their fatigue state, followed closely by pilots judging their flying partner's fatigue state. Only counting on pilots to call fatigued when they are with no other FRMS rules in place is a recipe for disaster.

15 Day On-Schedule is not FAR 117 compliant. The typical response is "we are 91/91K/135 so what?" Arguably, the 91/91K/135 flying can be more fatiguing than 121 so applying that minimum standard should be done as part of a company's FRMS program.

Last week the Flight Safety Foundation jointly with the NBAA released the Duty/Rest Guidelines for Business Aviation based on a vast work of research.

http://flightsafety.org/current-safety-initiatives/duty-rest-guidelines

The document is authored by lead researcher Leigh White who is an expert in aviation fatigue. The 15 Day On schedule is not compliant with those guidelines either. It will be interesting to see how TMC gets around that. My bet is they will treat them as "we don't need to follow guidelines".

 

[ghostrider64]

No commentary on TMC...but what do you base your opinion of the 15-day schedule on? If you use your fatigue policy when necessary, there's nothing unsafe about it. No fatigue policy? Then all bets are off

I doubt seriously if TM has a fatigue policy..but if you don't fly on a duty day, you don't get paid there....so onward they fly.

Read the link on nbaa and fatigue I posted. 15 day is dangerous, period!

 

[V1 Rotate]

How can you make an exact statement like that?

In the nearly ten years I've been here I've never heard their names of being an approved Flexjet charter company. Put me at 99.9% but I'm pretty sure they aren't. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. So be it.

 

[OldCrow]

Call Sign

Well come on, they are "Trail Blazers".
That is a BRUTAL schedule!

 

[Woodstockpal]

In the nearly ten years I've been here I've never heard their names of being an approved Flexjet charter company. Put me at 99.9% but I'm pretty sure they aren't. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. So be it.

you're quite wrong

 

[chief9404]

When will this industry get some self worth? 200 pilots over there willing to work for peanuts. 15 days on? Perhaps your of some third world descent, willing to enslave yourselves. These guys are flying EJM and Netjets trips, are they flying FLOPs and FLEX trips too? Accident waiting to happen and the NBAA agrees with me.

Openly carrying maint envy discrepancies, because if you don't fly you don't get paid? FWIWI you don't get paid if your dead either.

http://www.nbaa.org/ops/safety/human-factors/fatigue/


Tell me where a 15 day schedule fits into the above.

One deadly accident is all it takes to destroy years of our industry building a reputation for safety above all else.

If ever there was a need for a union, Travel Management blazes the trail.

They fly for EJM and NEtJets because Berkshire Hathaway bought Pete Liegl's RV company. There will never be a union at TMC. He would shut the company down before dealing with a union. Just look at his RV factory's. No Unions.

 

[skier17]

When will this industry get some self worth? 200 pilots over there willing to work for peanuts. 15 days on? Perhaps your of some third world descent, willing to enslave yourselves. These guys are flying EJM and Netjets trips, are they flying FLOPs and FLEX trips too? Accident waiting to happen and the NBAA agrees with me.

Openly carrying maint envy discrepancies, because if you don't fly you don't get paid? FWIWI you don't get paid if your dead either.

http://www.nbaa.org/ops/safety/human-factors/fatigue/


Tell me where a 15 day schedule fits into the above.

One deadly accident is all it takes to destroy years of our industry building a reputation for safety above all else.

If ever there was a need for a union, Travel Management blazes the trail.

I've never flown a FLOPS/FLEX trip, as far as I know. We definitely still get paid when our airplane goes down for MX. Not sure who told you that we don't get paid when our airplane breaks or goes in for inspection, that's just a flat lie.

 

[pilotyip]

I've never flown a FLOPS/FLEX trip, as far as I know. We definitely still get paid when our airplane goes down for MX. Not sure who told you that we don't get paid when our airplane breaks or goes in for inspection, that's just a flat lie.

Name calling it is so FI, these are the same people who consider NJ not a very good job because they don't get free meals while on the road when in a hotel waiting for an assignment and not flying. I mean the outrage of that, having to spend their per-diem to eat.

There are a long list of people trying to get on at TMC. There are also a lot of pilots leaving for what they consider better jobs.

 

[CALRepublic]

Name calling it is so FI, these are the same people who consider NJ not a very good job because they don't get free meals while on the road when in a hotel waiting for an assignment and not flying. I mean the outrage of that, having to spend their per-diem to eat.

There are a long list of people trying to get on at TMC. There are also a lot of pilots leaving for what they consider better jobs.

Yes sir i agree %100

"I've been an F/O at Netjets for 9 years, i hate this company, i'm going to AA"

15 year upgrade there, and if they throw you in the 737, MD80 or A320, you'd be doing the same s**t there you do here. You'll make more money there, but with our netjets' benefits, the diference is not that much. NJA is not that bad of a job

 

[jonjuan]

Yes sir i agree %100

"I've been an F/O at Netjets for 9 years, i hate this company, i'm going to AA"

15 year upgrade there, and if they throw you in the 737, MD80 or A320, you'd be doing the same s**t there you do here. You'll make more money there, but with our netjets' benefits, the diference is not that much. NJA is not that bad of a job

15 year upgrade? 1/2 the seniority list reaches 65 in about 8 years. Take into account anyone retiring early, losing a medical, etc and you'll see an upgrade in 6-7 as well as having 16% tossed into a 401K with zero contribution required.

 

[pilotyip]

15 year upgrade? 1/2 the seniority list reaches 65 in about 8 years. Take into account anyone retiring early, losing a medical, etc and you'll see an upgrade in 6-7 as well as having 16% tossed into a 401K with zero contribution required.

When you should run on over there, I hear the grass is much much greener over there

 

[BentOver]

From experience, yes the grass is greener...

YIP, it's called demanding to have a certain QOL while on the road... It's called getting hired at a good company and demanding it stay that way... It's called knowing your self worth and placing a limit on how much you'll let yourself be managed by others who screw up...

You should try it sometime

 

[eightdriver]

I do a 15 day rotation every month for my company... Its not that big of a deal.

 

[gret]

Having trouble reading the initial thread post and not thinking that this thing is just an agenda item of someone who feels slighted.

A bit melodramatic and has probably dealt some damaged to the reputation of FI...whose members view hyperbole, and other attempts at overstatement, as ungentlemanly.

 

[pilotyip]

From experience, yes the grass is greener...

YIP, it's called demanding to have a certain QOL while on the road... It's called getting hired at a good company and demanding it stay that way... It's called knowing your self worth and placing a limit on how much you'll let yourself be managed by others who screw up...

You should try it sometime

Try what? BTW Who are you to pass judgement on my QOL? Anything beyond the JO bunk room where six pilots lived in a 10 x 10 stateroom is QOL for me. Life has been good don't think I would;d change much.

 

[V1 Rotate]

From experience, yes the grass is greener...

YIP, it's called demanding to have a certain QOL while on the road... It's called getting hired at a good company and demanding it stay that way... It's called knowing your self worth and placing a limit on how much you'll let yourself be managed by others who screw up...

You should try it sometime

And how's that plan working out for you? Judging by your username, I would have to assume not too well.

 

[av8trinabarrel]

And how's that plan working out for you? Judging by your username, I would have to assume not too well.

If flying heavies out of HNL is "not too well", then yeah.....He's having a rough go of it. Nice try though

 

[jonjuan]

Try what? BTW Who are you to pass judgement on my QOL? Anything beyond the JO bunk room where six pilots lived in a 10 x 10 stateroom is QOL for me. Life has been good don't think I would;d change much.

We'll, gee-ain't that raising the bar in life. Might as well live in a dumpster behind the Waffle House.

 

[pilotyip]

We'll, gee-ain't that raising the bar in life. Might as well live in a dumpster behind the Waffle House.

Free food? Waffle House? If I am happy what matter is that to you? Are you unhappy that I am happy when you think that you should be unhappy because your QOL is not as good as that of an Arab Prince? As far a raising the bar, I am happy with my local bar and their $1.00 drafts, why would I want to raise their price? Life is good.:laugh:

 

[BentOver]

If flying heavies out of HNL is "not too well", then yeah.....He's having a rough go of it. Nice try though

Thanks, I got very lucky to have a friend in just the right spot just to get the first after furlough job. From there it was just a matter of having the right boxes checked. ( specifically the "do you live in Hawaii? Box) along with past experience that wasn't limited to Interisland TProp flying.

 

[BentOver]

Free food? Waffle House? If I am happy what matter is that to you? Are you unhappy that I am happy when you think that you should be unhappy because your QOL is not as good as that of an Arab Prince? As far a raising the bar, I am happy with my local bar and their $1.00 drafts, why would I want to raise their price? Life is good.:laugh:

Fine, we get it. You're happy with anything that is better than job "X"...

Personally I'm sure absolutely none of us care about you or your job. EXCEPT you continue to drop in on every thread that doesn't pertain to you, and then call all of those who are unwilling to compromise their QOL "whiners"..

Some of us just have higher standards than you.... If you choose to post something on the cargo board about your happiness, I highly doubt any of us would know or even care...



But continue bashing those of us whiners who want more....

 

[BentOver]

And how's that plan working out for you? Judging by your username, I would have to assume not too well.

Worked out well, thanks.... I personally enjoy Australia, New Zealand, and Korea... Japan is nice but I stick out like a sore thumb..... Unfortunately I get junior west coast trips pretty often.

Did have a bit of a scare recently, almost got displaced to the A330,.... I know torturous right??!! Luckily it worked out...

Based on your username I'd say you like the V1 and rotate call out... Have 8000 hrs and have flown a few a/c... Cool, good job.

 

[pilotyip]

Fine, we get it. You're happy with anything that is better than job "X"...

Personally I'm sure absolutely none of us care about you or your job. EXCEPT you continue to drop in on every thread that doesn't pertain to you, and then call all of those who are unwilling to compromise their QOL "whiners"..

Some of us just have higher standards than you.... If you choose to post something on the cargo board about your happiness, I highly doubt any of us would know or even care...

But continue bashing those of us whiners who want more....

Excuse me sir. I did not start this, I just agreed with a guy saying NJ was not that bad of a job. With which I agree, this was immediately bashed by a whiner that said AAL would be a much better job. I then encouraged him to make the move to those green pastures. No one should be unhappy if there is a better place out there. Of course a lot of guys who jumped from SWA and FedEx to AAL back in 2000 thought the same thing. How did things work out for them?

Yes sir i agree %100

"I've been an F/O at Netjets for 9 years, i hate this company, i'm going to AA"

15 year upgrade there, and if they throw you in the 737, MD80 or A320, you'd be doing the same s**t there you do here. You'll make more money there, but with our netjets' benefits, the diference is not that much. NJA is not that bad of a job

I an not bashing anyone here, but am just amazzed at the unhappiness I see here from guys that have some of the finest job in the flying business. Gotta run, got B-17 ground school today.

 

[johnsonrod]

Is it true that if you call in fatigue at TMC they take it from your vacation days? That doesn't sound safe if true...

 

[skier17]

Is it true that if you call in fatigue at TMC they take it from your vacation days? That doesn't sound safe if true...

No. We would first need to GET vacation days before they could take them away from us. You call in fatigued and you get the day off, pretty simple. It's amazing some of the insane rumors people will start.