Trans States downgrades and furloughs - Again...

[redbook]

Man this is old news. If I was a go-jet pilot I think I would definitely have to beat the crap out of anyone who treated me like that. Those people are just trying to work just like everyone else. I swear, sometimes I think airline union pilots are just gang bangers that learned to fly.

Good luck tough guy.

 

[Minimaniac]

I'm just wondering when pilots are going to get serious about scope.....They had a chance to get a single list....We are our own worst enemy.....

Saying TSA is to blame for not voting for that TA is absolutely idiotic. That is like saying you should buy your own car back off the guy who just stole it out of your driveway. TSA had scope, and it was violated. Why should they take concessions to get back what was rightfully theirs in the first place?

Go-Jets will always be a disgrace to the airline profession. Unionizing does not fix the fact that you cut the throats of TSA pilots, and sent your CO-WORKERS to the street through furloughs while you added flying and jobs. It is disgusting. Don't ever come around looking for equal treatment and respect from me. Maybe in 40 years, when the majority of pilots who remember how Go-Jets came to be have retired, the Go-Jets legacy will be forgotten and you will be looked upon as just another airline. Until then, get bent.

 

[Razorback Flyer]

Saying TSA is to blame for not voting for that TA is absolutely idiotic. quote]

Minimaniac has some good points. Its true that TSA holdings started gojet to get around the AA scope - but a separate certificate doesn't mean you have to have separate lists. Republic holdings has three certificates, all staffed by one master list. TSAH could have CHOSEN to do this as well, but were not legally obligated to do so - and could use 2 lists to leverage 2 groups against one another. Not surprisingly, this was the course of action they chose to pursue.

It is also true that we could have put an end to it by voting in the TA and putting everyone on one list. But the TA was riddled with vague language and loopholes, furlough protection for the gojetters, and very poor pay rates going forward. As one pilot said "it was a crappy offer, but it was the best offer we were going to get. It was a Sh*t sandwich, but we should have eaten the sh*t sandwich, gotten it over with, and put the threat behind us." I personally don't agree with this - there were too many loopholes that could still have screwed the TSA pilots, and as someone else has mentioned, we then would have been deomnized for joining/leading the race to the bottom.

The pilot group was definitely not to blame for this. In a similar analogy to what Minimaniac used, it was kind of like dealing with someone who’s robbing you at gunpoint. They might offer to spare you life and not steal your driver’s license if you give them everything else in your wallet. It’s a better offer than being shot. But its still a bum deal, you don’t know if he’ll keep his word, and it doesn’t make him any less a criminal.

I think the union was overconfident about the outcome of the situation, which, I believe led to some poor decisions. But I still believe blaming them is like blaming the robbery victim. The company could have chosen to do the right thing from the start, and they did not.

In any event, This company is laying off one group while hirring to another. That is never the right thing to do.

Best of luck to all waterskiers. Know that leaving TSA will eventually leave you better off, whether you know it right now or not.

 

[CX880]

Saying TSA is to blame for not voting for that TA is absolutely idiotic. That is like saying you should buy your own car back off the guy who just stole it out of your driveway. TSA had scope, and it was violated. Why should they take concessions to get back what was rightfully theirs in the first place?

Go-Jets will always be a disgrace to the airline profession. Unionizing does not fix the fact that you cut the throats of TSA pilots, and sent your CO-WORKERS to the street through furloughs while you added flying and jobs. It is disgusting. Don't ever come around looking for equal treatment and respect from me. Maybe in 40 years, when the majority of pilots who remember how Go-Jets came to be have retired, the Go-Jets legacy will be forgotten and you will be looked upon as just another airline. Until then, get bent.

What ever happend after the vote is of no consequence. You voted NO live with it. You're not going to change TSA even if GJ wasn't around. As the poster above mentioned, management could have done the right thing but they didin't because they're bottom feeders and would prefer to hire monkeys as long as they can fly an airplane.

You got screwed by the UNION get over it. GJ was going to be formed with or with out your approval of merging seniority lists. It's a free economy. People signed on, formed a union and a contract. Now they're doing well while TSA is not. Now it's all about could've, woud've, should've. It's getting retarded.

 

[Skippy]

how did they get screwed by the union? x880 or whatever?

last i remember the deal highlights were :

1. a ********************ty payrate
2. loss of vacation for more senior people
3. only 5 years longevity to be brought over
4. and like a 10 year contract extension which got halved at the last minute or something.
5. more loopholes than i've ever seen with any LOA at TSA.

It was a complete joke and 75% of the people thought so.

this thread got toally hijacked but when you have TSA furloughing and geauxjet hiring and getting more planes it's gonna get nasty.

SKIPPY

 

[motch]

Hay CX..

you probably would have made a great NAZI guard, or Gulag Kommandant.. or one of those other great indivuals who follows orders and goes along with "injustice" instaed of trying to do the right thing, or at least make a stand for rightness.

Everyone at TSA knew that, even by voting NO, they may not have a second chance but it was still the right thing to do.
As someone who was part of the LEC at the time, I can tell you that there was also pressure from National to "accept the bad deal" cause we'll fix it later and it's more important to get them within ALPA National's grasp.
Funny thing is, that is exactly how the Freedom/Mesa deal went down and that opened the door for the Gojet/TSA deal.
Even if we had voted yes, there would be TSA pilots senior to GoJet pilots getting bumped out of the left seat today (my opinion). There were hugh loophholes in the LOA and when we (MEC/LEC) attempted to have examples written into the LOA, the company refused.

RazorBack has explained it better than anyone can so I'll leave it at that.

 

[rjacobs]

Man this is old news. If I was a go-jet pilot I think I would definitely have to beat the crap out of anyone who treated me like that. Those people are just trying to work just like everyone else. I swear, sometimes I think airline union pilots are just gang bangers that learned to fly.

SSSSSSCCCCCCCCCAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBBBB. Spoken like a typical sympathizer.

 

[CX880]

Hay CX..

you probably would have made a great NAZI guard, or Gulag Kommandant.. or one of those other great indivuals who follows orders and goes along with "injustice" instaed of trying to do the right thing, or at least make a stand for rightness.
.

Hey motc, I was a mesa pilot and chose to make a stand by walking out because I know what a bottom feeder is and you can't fix it by union bullsit the only way is to kill it by voting with your feet. I know I've taken a stand, don't be dick.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Hey motc, I was a mesa pilot and chose to make a stand by walking out because I know what a bottom feeder is and you can't fix it by union bullsit the only way is to kill it by voting with your feet. I know I've taken a stand, don't be dick.

I don't believe you ever answered the question as to whether or not you've applied at HOjets...your constant defense of the Hulas creation to screw TSA pilots seems to indicate that you are indeed attempting to HO(oops, typo... "go") there!

 

[ToiletDuck]

Saying TSA is to blame for not voting for that TA is absolutely idiotic. quote]

Minimaniac has some good points. Its true that TSA holdings started gojet to get around the AA scope - but a separate certificate doesn't mean you have to have separate lists. Republic holdings has three certificates, all staffed by one master list.

The then pilot group didn't just get make that happen. The had to give a lot for it.

 

[ToiletDuck]

Hey motc, I was a mesa pilot and chose to make a stand by walking out because I know what a bottom feeder is and you can't fix it by union bullsit the only way is to kill it by voting with your feet. I know I've taken a stand, don't be dick.

Voting with your feet would have been to never walk into Mesa in the first place. A union won't work for you because you're an idiot who thinks you can't kill something by voting it. What are you going to do keep walking form place to place making sure you stay on the bottom of the seniority list?

 

[rjacobs]

Hey motc, I was a mesa pilot and chose to make a stand by walking out because I know what a bottom feeder is and you can't fix it by union bullsit the only way is to kill it by voting with your feet. I know I've taken a stand, don't be dick.

So you went from one bottom feeder(Mesa) to another bottom feeder(TSA). If you had truly been voting with your feet to make the industry better you would have gone a more respectable airline like XJT, ASA, or Comair. All of those airlines have done something in the past 10 or so years to better the profession, even if they got beat down in the process. XJT has a contract regarded as possibly the best in the regionals and arguably better than some legacy contracts in certain areas(except for pay and its not bad), ASA refused to sign a ******************** contract and took a beating for 5 years, Comair actually had the balls(and a democratic president) to strike.

 

[airjackson]

All of those airlines have done something in the past 10 or so years to better the professionquote]

...like the TSA pilots not voting in a crap agreement with a morally-bankrupt management, just to get "shiny new jets" for sub-standard pay. Is that not bettering the profession???

 

[rjacobs]

All of those airlines have done something in the past 10 or so years to better the profession

...like the TSA pilots not voting in a crap agreement with a morally-bankrupt management, just to get "shiny new jets" for sub-standard pay. Is that not bettering the profession???

It did better the profession, although in the grand scheme of things, seems to have changed nothing, but ********************ing the TSA pilot group even more. TSA, as a company, is a bottom feeder though. I flew at TSA, I lost my job as a direct result of blowjets. I think I know how that situation impacted the pilot group. Ya know where a lot of those people who voted no are at? Jet Blue and SkyWest, two of the largest non-union carriers in the industry. Ironic isnt it.

 

[motch]

Actually, not many who voted NO went to SkyWest as those who did leave for SW were mostly newhires under a year. Not eligble to vote! But yes, others did go to JB and from what I hear, many are trying or at least pro union over there.

As far as making a change by walking out.. you make a change by fighting within, not walking over to the next 'bottom feeder', casue the problem will just follow you to your next job.

Comair set the standard back in 2000. Then MESA dropped the ball and started the downward trend that GoJet/ TSAH followed. Now it has affected everyone within the industry. Mesa/Freedom underbidding is what has caused pain at Comair, even though Mesa/Freedom was and is a third rate airline. But the damage is done..

TSA pilots will always be able to say they held the line...

motch
voted NO and would still do it again

 

[airjackson]

It did better the profession, although in the grand scheme of things, seems to have changed nothing, but ********************ing the TSA pilot group even more. TSA, as a company, is a bottom feeder though. I flew at TSA, I lost my job as a direct result of blowjets. I think I know how that situation impacted the pilot group. Ya know where a lot of those people who voted no are at? Jet Blue and SkyWest, two of the largest non-union carriers in the industry. Ironic isnt it.

I think I know how that situation impacted the pilot group as well. I was there also. I don't know how accurate your facts are re: JB and SKW as I have friends who have moved on from TSA to just about every airline out there. The decision to tell Hulas and company to pound curry may have indeed screwed the TSA pilots in the long run, although that is a matter of interpretation. It did not, however, screw everyone else in this profession. I am sure of that.


I have since left the airlines for the corporate/frac world. The whole airline industry is one big bottom-feeder if you ask me. It pains me to say that as I was one of those who dreamed of making the airlines a career. It is not a career. It is mental, professional and family suicide.

I'll never look back, but I am proud to have been a Waterskier and stood in line with a great group of pilots who told management and Gojet to piss off. I will never forget. I check the interview boards weekly for Gojet pilots. I will never forget.

 

[Tarzan]

I'll never look back, but I am proud to have been a Waterskier and stood in line with a great group of pilots who told management and Gojet to piss off. I will never forget. I check the interview boards weekly for Gojet pilots. I will never forget.

Ahhh! TSA..... A great place to be from.

Not many guys from TSA will forget what happened there. Go Jet pilots managed to make a few eneimies for life.

 

[AAPilot]

does ae or chq get the tsa flying out of stl? lets face it tsa and uncle huli is the ultimate p.o.s. operation ever in our era!

 

[Salukipilot4590]

does ae or chq get the tsa flying out of stl? lets face it tsa and uncle huli is the ultimate p.o.s. operation ever in our era!

Well I for one have pride in my work along with my bros here at TSA. Just another AA kiddie happy to see pilots who were already mistreated out on the street. YAY for you homes!

 

[PBRstreetgang]

"Frank was right"
Frank really was right!
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