Traffic Pattern Anyone?

[fastback]

Traffic Patterns really come down to Situational Awareness. Imagine being 10 miles south of an uncontrolled Runway 18, one guy's in the pattern just turning downwind. If you make a straight-in you'll probably safely land behind the traffic as he'll be on his next turn to crosswind turn. On the other hand if you enter on the 45, you'll most likely both be on the downwind, at the same time in place.

Which is safer or better?

Great situational awareness there. If you're 10 south of the field setting up for a straight in, that puts you on a tailwind landing on 36 as he's touching down on 18. That's okay, I've seen plenty of Lear and Citation yahoos completely screw the pooch in the pattern.

No, you don't have to do the 45 thing, just don't make right turns in a standard pattern. Join upwind, land straight in, off the base, whatever. Just have the sense [it's clearly not common] to figure out where you are and where you are going before you hot dog it in there.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

I've been away for a few days on a trip. Got to work sometimes.

Barring any proceedural note to the contrary, you are legal and correct to maneuver any way you like to land on the runway to which you're circling...so long as as you remain within the appropriate circling radius for the groundspeed at which you're circling.

Thanks for your reply and the references you have given from the AIM and the ATC manual. But really since such references are "non-regulatory material of interest" they don't really provide a definitive answer to the question. Nor do they specifically address the scenario given for compliance with 14CFR91.126(b) when landing at a class G airport that may be under IFR or VFR.

We clearly know what the rules are for VFR and I see nothing that says it is different for IFR at a Class G airport.

I have really never heard of anyone getting a violation for turning incorrectly when IFR and circling to land but it is worth considering that if the field goes to VFR it would be much more important to comply with the left turn rule or right turns if so indicated.



Would anyone think that this is a gray area of the rules?

 

[FN FAL]

IMHO, whether IFR or VFR all turns should be made to the left, unless right traffic is specified for that particular runway..... So, at MDA circling turns should be made to the left.....

yea, that's great, untill approach tells you to circle north east of the field for runway 25 right. Then you'll have to crash because a right turn to circle isn't in your book.

Take a look at the aim again and look at the method for joining the pattern from the opposite side. You have to overfly and make a huge 270 degree right hand turn to join a left traffic pattern. Why not just one 45 degree turn to the right and then join final on a 45.

I can't think of many passengers who would enjoy the exess manuvering.

 

[ReverseSensing]

Here's what I've always wondered:

1) Why don't Jepp plates indicate traffic pattern direction? If Jepp plates are all you fly with, wouldn't it be better to get this info off the 10-9 plate than to over-fly or call for advisories to get the pattern?

2) When is a right turn (when a left turn is required) not illegal? In other words, if a right turn establishes you on a 5-mile straight-in, are you legal? How about a 3-mile final? How about a 1-mile final? At what distance from the landing surface are you making an illegal turn if turning opposite to the pattern? (For the sake of argument, let's assume that other traffic is not a factor -- it's the middle of the night, but there's a Fed hiding in the bushes waiting to "help." )

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Here's what I've always wondered:

1) Why don't Jepp plates indicate traffic pattern direction? If Jepp plates are all you fly with, wouldn't it be better to get this info off the 10-9 plate than to over-fly or call for advisories to get the pattern?

2) When is a right turn (when a left turn is required) not illegal? In other words, if a right turn establishes you on a 5-mile straight-in, are you legal? How about a 3-mile final? How about a 1-mile final? At what distance from the landing surface are you making an illegal turn if turning opposite to the pattern? (For the sake of argument, let's assume that other traffic is not a factor -- it's the middle of the night, but there's a Fed hiding in the bushes waiting to "help." )

1) It took 60-years of letter writing to get the traffic pattern direction shown on sectional charts if it was non-standard, so I guess Jepp just doesn't get it yet. Good question. This should be forwarded to Jeppesen for an answer.

2) This is too goood of a question for me to answer. This is one for Avbug.

 

[jknight8907]

Where will you take that runway? You won't take posession of it. You won't take control. It isn't yours. You can't take it home. Where will you take it?

You can certainly enter the runway environment.

Is a control tower in use, authorizing that runway and designating it as active? No? Then it's not the active runway. It's just the runway. Rather than say "taking the active," you might say "taxiing and holding on runway 22."

You're more precise in your transmission, the runway to which you're referring is specifically named, and your reporting is correct.

Remember that at an uncontrolled field, there is no "active." Merely because you're using that runway doesn't mean someone else won't be using another. By thinking in terms of an "active" runway, you're thinking in terms of what you expect...don't expect. Look everywhere. The runway you happen to be using, or that others happen to be using, isn't necessarily the only one "active" or in use...expand your thinking to all possibilities, don't narrow it to the one runway on which you're operating.

I didn't say taking THE active runway, I said AN active runway. As in, a runway that currently has somebody using it.

 

[DrewBlows]

§ 91.126 Operating on or in the vicinity of an airport in Class G airspace.

(a) General. Unless otherwise authorized or required, each person operating an aircraft on or in the vicinity of an airport in a Class G airspace area must comply with the requirements of this section.
(b) Direction of turns. When approaching to land at an airport without an operating control tower in Class G airspace—
(1) Each pilot of an airplane must make all turns of that airplane to the left unless the airport displays approved light signals or visual markings indicating that turns should be made to the right, in which case the pilot must make all turns to the right; and
(2) Each pilot of a helicopter or a powered parachute must avoid the flow of fixed-wing aircraft.



Deleted the rest for brevity.




91.127 (Class E) and 91.129 (Class D) also say that you must comply with 91.126.

I don't see an exception for circling instrument approaches here, nor anywhere else in the FAR.

 

[momalley81]

§ 91.126 Operating on or in the vicinity of an airport in Class G airspace.

(a) General. Unless otherwise authorized or required, each person operating an aircraft on or in the vicinity of an airport in a Class G airspace area must comply with the requirements of this section.
(b) Direction of turns. When approaching to land at an airport without an operating control tower in Class G airspace—
(1) Each pilot of an airplane must make all turns of that airplane to the left unless the airport displays approved light signals or visual markings indicating that turns should be made to the right, in which case the pilot must make all turns to the right; and

I don't see an exception for circling instrument approaches here, nor anywhere else in the FAR.

How about-

(a)General. Unless otherwise authorized OR REQUIRED, each person operating an aircraft on or in the vicinity of an airport in a Class G airspace must comply with the requirements of this section

Seems they left a little bit of grey in there after all. Wouldn't be much of a stretch to argue that if you're on a circle to land approach, and see the airport before the MAP, and have to make a right turn to join the downwind for the favored runway, it would be "required" And advisable over making a right turn the long way around.

And- please explain to me how to use the AIM advised pattern entry- 45 to the downwind, without making at least one right turn.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

And- please explain to me how to use the AIM advised pattern entry- 45 to the downwind, without making at least one right turn.

You are very correct. It can not be done. Therefore the AIM recommended pattern is in violation the way I read the FAR's for traffic pattern turns at a class G airport. Oh well, as Avbug sez, "Deal with it." I like his answer in this regard.

 

[DrewBlows]

And- please explain to me how to use the AIM advised pattern entry- 45 to the downwind, without making at least one right turn.

I don't think that you have to do a 45 to the downwind to enter the pattern. I took the regulation to mean that once in the traffic pattern all turns need to be to the left, and obviously a right turn would be required to enter left traffic in a lot of instances. That said, the regulation doesn't specify that, so I suppose it's open for debate.

Your other point that right traffice would be appropriate "when required" is valid as well. Which begs the question, when would right traffic (or a pattern other than displayed) be "required" for a circling approach? I can think of a few instances where right traffic would be a little more convenient, but not "required". Prove me wrong.