Traffic Pattern Anyone?

[NYCPilot]

Sometimes reprimanding on the radio is in order.

At uncontrolled fields, you should always enter on a 45 degree left downwind. You should begin to monitor the traffic flow about 10 miles out and begin announcing your position no closer than 5 miles from the airport. Position should be stated entering the 45, established on the downwind, turning base and on final. Once on the ground, report clear of the active when you're past the hold short lines of the intersection.

Remember, at non-towered fields aircraft do not require a radio and can legally enter the pattern and land without any verbal radio calls. Don't rely soley on position reports as there may be unannounced traffic joining.

 

[NYCPilot]

with the volume of planes entering the pattern, I think everyone conforming to standard pattern entry and callouts would be much safer than half a dozen or more planes trying to "talk" to each other and sort things out using lengthy nonstandard language.
This becomes especially confusing when there are numerous similar aircraft.

 

[501261]

Sometimes reprimanding on the radio is in order.

A verbal reprimand, on the radio? Seriously for your own safety, unless you know the offender, don't get in a pissing contest on the radio. Wait until you both have landed and can have a civilized conversation with them.

 

[100-1/2]

FAR = Regulation
AIM = Information

You will not find traffic patterns in the FAR, you will find it in the AIM.
While 'Right-of-Way' rules are found in the FAR, they are POINTLESS if you are DEAD!.

Likewise, I will not take my 200+ KIAS across midfield to do a wide descending circle on the traffic pattern side and to enter a '45' midfield and down wind to a 'busy' or otherwise uncontrolled field. This tremendously increases the odds of running into the pattern pounders, busy 'instructing' away in the pattern rather than purposely looking out the window and monitoring radios and making proper position reports at the proper time. There is no regulation that says you must have a radio OR USE IT in an uncontrolled field. I would much rather assess the pattern traffic as much as 10 minutes out. Listening for departures, arrivals and local traffic and judge the most expeditious route to an active runway where the most minimal exposure to conflicts will occur. It is common in my situation that a right hand base to final will accomplish this, YET, you CFI 'Professionals' want to get bent out of shape and wrapped around your axles because guys like me don't slow to 150 KIAS or less and fall in behind you. Often my assessment is that I will be base to final on your Upwind cross or Downwind legs yet you want to try to debate my procedure or contend over the busy CTAF. GET OVER YOURSELF!

While we are on the subject. STOP BROADCASTING YOUR TAXI PROGRESS TO/FROM the RAMP. On many Freqs, it is not only annoying as he<<, it often blocks out more pertinant info being transmitted.

my $.02.

100-1/2

 

[501261]

FAR = Regulation
AIM = Information

You will not find traffic patterns in the FAR, you will find it in the AIM.
While 'Right-of-Way' rules are found in the FAR, they are POINTLESS if you are DEAD!.

Likewise, I will not take my 200+ KIAS across midfield to do a wide descending circle on the traffic pattern side and to enter a '45' midfield and down wind to a 'busy' or otherwise uncontrolled field. This tremendously increases the odds of running into the pattern pounders, busy 'instructing' away in the pattern rather than purposely looking out the window and monitoring radios and making proper position reports at the proper time. There is no regulation that says you must have a radio OR USE IT in an uncontrolled field. I would much rather assess the pattern traffic as much as 10 minutes out. Listening for departures, arrivals and local traffic and judge the most expeditious route to an active runway where the most minimal exposure to conflicts will occur. It is common in my situation that a right hand base to final will accomplish this, YET, you CFI 'Professionals' want to get bent out of shape and wrapped around your axles because guys like me don't slow to 150 KIAS or less and fall in behind you. Often my assessment is that I will be base to final on your Upwind cross or Downwind legs yet you want to try to debate my procedure or contend over the busy CTAF. GET OVER YOURSELF!

While we are on the subject. STOP BROADCASTING YOUR TAXI PROGRESS TO/FROM the RAMP. On many Freqs, it is not only annoying as he<<, it often blocks out more pertinant info being transmitted.

my $.02.

100-1/2

I agree with everything you said, except you can't make a right base to a left traffic pattern (FAR. 91.126). I don't know if that's what you meant, but it is a big "gotcha."

 

[501261]

Traffic Patterns really come down to Situational Awareness. Imagine being 10 miles south of an uncontrolled Runway 18, one guy's in the pattern just turning downwind. If you make a straight-in you'll probably safely land behind the traffic as he'll be on his next turn to crosswind turn. On the other hand if you enter on the 45, you'll most likely both be on the downwind, at the same time in place.

Which is safer or better? Well just like most things in aviation there are no hard answers. In the previous scenario, making a straight in is clearly a safer option to avoid the "known" traffic, but it does open the door to "unknown" traffic. On the other hand the CFI that always insists on entering a pattern on a 45 in the previous scenario is creating a "traffic" issue by being in the same place and time as the traffic in the pattern.

Back to situational awareness, do you really need to be in the traffic pattern? If I were a CFI, and there's more than three in the pattern, that'd be a day I go out and do some stalls and turns, or go to a controlled field.

 

[Kream926]

what about the older guys that have no radios? how are you going to communicate and do a lading sequene?

 

[NYCPilot]

Traffic Patterns really come down to Situational Awareness. Imagine being 10 miles south of an uncontrolled Runway 18, one guy's in the pattern just turning downwind. If you make a straight-in you'll probably safely land behind the traffic as he'll be on his next turn to crosswind turn. On the other hand if you enter on the 45, you'll most likely both be on the downwind, at the same time in place.

Which is safer or better? Well just like most things in aviation there are no hard answers. In the previous scenario, making a straight in is clearly a safer option to avoid the "known" traffic, but it does open the door to "unknown" traffic. On the other hand the CFI that always insists on entering a pattern on a 45 in the previous scenario is creating a "traffic" issue by being in the same place and time as the traffic in the pattern.

Back to situational awareness, do you really need to be in the traffic pattern? If I were a CFI, and there's more than three in the pattern, that'd be a day I go out and do some stalls and turns, or go to a controlled field.

If someone is reporting the 45, then stay clear of the terminal area until they're established on downwind or turnign base. Then enter the patter. Simple as that. Remain clear of the legs if someone else is on them. No need to be in the same place at the same time.

If the pattern is empty, the occasional straight-in may be okay. When you've got lots of traffic, it's common sense to conform to standard legs. This allows the other pilots to know where they might expect you and in a sense you get in line to land.

 

[aucfi]

[FONT=&quot]I guess it’s my fault that I had instructors & examiners who always stressed proper pattern entrys and departures. Maybe my complacency will come once I get "enough" time, oh I hope I make it that far.....

Whether its in the FAR/AIM/AC it doesn’t matter, the traffic pattern was created to increase safety at uncontrolled airports right???

Were the straight in landings unsafe? Generally speaking no, they are not unless you have some Cirrus calling an approach to one runway and almost landing on the other. That is what bothered me the most about the straight in landings. Why not use the "recommended" pattern entry/departures which advocate safety?

I guess it was good he did a straight in landing to the closed runway. That’s better than having him fly a pattern to the closed runway. Wouldn’t that be an interesting day... Maybe if he used his eyes and brain he would have realized what runway was actually two zero. MAYBE, just MAYBE if he had planned ahead and entered the pattern properly, he could have avoided his embarrassing moment.

Yes, LOOK WITH YOUR EYES, NOT THE RADIO, I/we know this. But if someone calls final to a particular runway, where will you look?[/FONT]

It is common in my situation that a right hand base to final will accomplish this, YET, you CFI 'Professionals' want to get bent out of shape and wrapped around your axles because guys like me don't slow to 150 KIAS or less and fall in behind you. Often my assessment is that I will be base to final on your Upwind cross or Downwind legs yet you want to try to debate my procedure or contend over the busy CTAF. GET OVER YOURSELF!

[FONT=&quot]The only thing I would debate is how to keep ourselves from occupying the same airspace at the same time. Thanks for the right hand base entry to the left hand pattern, my students will appreciate the visual of what not to do. Lead by example.

I know you guys are in a mad rush. I’ve dabbled in the corporate scene and completely understand your rush. This is why I do not mind helping out when I can if given the opportunity.[/FONT]

We get a lot of corporate traffic in and out of the airport and they usually cut corners in the pattern. Though its practically no different, I usually dont mind extending to let them in ahead of us or to give them a chance to depart as long as they call ahead and give us in the pattern time to kind of coordinate an opening for them.

au

 

[501261]

what about the older guys that have no radios? how are you going to communicate and do a lading sequene?

You abide aviation's "Golden Rule," FAR 91.113b, you see and AVOID. And it's not always the little cub that's out there without radios.

A while back, going into TRK, I went around for a Global Express, that apparently didn't have radios. Did I get pissed off, or "reprimand him on the radio;" of course not, you know why, because stuff happens everybody makes mistakes, that's life.

After finding out that the GEX crew had 122.7 dialed in for the CTAF, that's was actually 122.8, they ended up buying lunch. That's what happens in the real world.